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Subject:

Re: CIG-E-FORUM Digest - 13 Jan 2014 (#2014-6)

From:

Tim O'Mahony <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Tim O'Mahony <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 14 Jan 2014 10:26:54 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1 lines)

We do add the 260 tag as we haven't been able to get the 264 tag to display on our OPACs...on staff screens the results are kind of hybrid...the date of publication is displayed but not the place of publication or publisher. We had some discussion with our LMS suppliers, but it is something that needs to be tidied up...adding the 260 is an interim solution.



Tim



Tim O'Mahony,

Library Staff Officer,

Bibliographic Services Department, Cork City Libraries,

Grand Parade, Cork.



T:  00353 21 4924926

F:  00353 21 4275684

E:  [log in to unmask]

www.corkcitylibraries.ie



The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments

is confidential and is designated solely for the attention and use of

the intended recipient(s). This information may be subject to

legal professional privilege. If you are not an intended recipient

of this e-mail or any part of it, you should not use, disclose, copy,

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copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s).



www.glowcork.ie













-----Original Message-----

From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Young, Thurstan

Sent: 14 January 2014 10:12

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG-E-FORUM Digest - 13 Jan 2014 (#2014-6)



Hi Tim,



Interesting you're adding the 260 tag. Are you doing this even if the RDA records already contain 264 fields?



Thurstan



-----Original Message-----

From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim O'Mahony

Sent: 14 January 2014 10:04

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG-E-FORUM Digest - 13 Jan 2014 (#2014-6)



Good morning. I was off yesterday so have just signed in. We are a public library in Ireland and have not yet started RDA cataloguing from scratch, and have no immediate plans to do so. However most of our records are imported, and many of them are RDA records. We do some editing on them to make them work with our library management system...in particular we add a GMD if the item is a non-book type, and we add a 260 tag. The relator subfields in 1xx and 7xx tags are working OK in our OPAC, and we don't change them. If there is a choice of record to be imported we take the fullest one, regardless of which format it is.



Regards to all,

Tim



Tim O'Mahony,

Library Staff Officer,

Bibliographic Services Department, Cork City Libraries, Grand Parade, Cork.



T:  00353 21 4924926

F:  00353 21 4275684

E:  [log in to unmask]

www.corkcitylibraries.ie



The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention and use of the intended recipient(s). This information may be subject to legal professional privilege. If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail or any part of it, you should not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this message. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s).



www.glowcork.ie













-----Original Message-----

From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CIG-E-FORUM automatic digest system

Sent: 14 January 2014 00:02

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: CIG-E-FORUM Digest - 13 Jan 2014 (#2014-6)



There are 12 messages totaling 4463 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



  1. training (4)

  2. CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training (4)

  3. Separate training environment? (2)

  4. Close of day 1

  5. Aw: [CIG-E-FORUM] Separate training environment?



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:28:28 +0000

From:    "Clifford, Katrina M" <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: training



I wonder also if there have been any areas of RDA that people have found it particularly difficult to either find training on or to teach and how you've dealt with it?



Conversely, has there been an approach that you've found has worked better than you thought, especially if it's a bit different, that you'd like to share your experience?



Katrina



Katrina Clifford



Ext: 62118

[log in to unmask]





From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Amy Staniforth [mws]

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:06

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] training



Hi,



There are only two of us here and I'm aware that some of the early training we had was perhaps too early to be of much use beyond awareness raising (useful itself, of course!) I was wondering if colleagues who have been through this or are currently implementing RDA would recommend particular training before drawing up documentation and other forms of training during implementation itself?



Many thanks



Amy



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------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:33:22 +0000

From:    "Peaden, William" <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



At Warwick all staff were trained in the FRBR model before any mention of RDA was made. This because RDA, while still an evolutionary offshoot of AACR2, is fundamentally based in the FRBR model. In other words, it is the foundation for understanding RDA, like grammar is the foundation to language. You can train the transcription skills and the cosmetic differences between AACR2 and RDA, but it would be impossible to explain why these things are different, difficult to explain mistakes, or even to show why something is correct. We had 2 sessions of FRBR training and how that links (ha) to linked data, user tasks and so on.



Warwick



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nicholson, Neil

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:22

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Hi Helen,



After some discussion we decided to give all our cataloguing team the full training in RDA, including WEMI and FRBR. In fact, FRBR was the first module in our training (based on LC training materials).



Neil



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Helen Williams

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:30

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Can I ask, in terms of training para-professional cataloguing staff are people planning on teaching FRBR and WEMI.  Like Katrina I've focused on the actual practicalities of RDA for now with the thought that I will return to FRBR and WEMI when our catalogues are more structured in that way.  But I'd be interested to hear what others are doing.

Helen



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clifford, Katrina M

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:26

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Thanks for this Jackie. I'm interested to see you've built in time for discussion sessions as well as just training. Do you anticipate continuing these once you start cataloguing fully?



I'm also interested in the whole WEMI thing. I suspect I've not given that as much thought as I should have compared to the actual practicalities of doing RDA. Maybe that's incredibly blinkered of me though.....



Katrina



Katrina Clifford



Ext: 62118

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jackie Johnson (Library Services)

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:17

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



We have drawn up a training programme to take place over the next few months, starting with an introductory session for all staff, then more tailored sessions for cataloguing staff, with the expectation that they will do some self tutoring probably using the Cambridge materials (thanks very much for these), plus some discussion sessions. As mentioned earlier, trying to explain FRBR, and WEMI etc to the uninitiated, even the initiated, is quite a challenge!



Jackie







Jackie Johnson

Metadata Team Leader

Library Services

University of Birmingham

Edgbaston

Birmingham

B15 2TT

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

0121-414-2767



Please note I do not work Mondays



Twitter: @uoblibservices<https://twitter.com/UoBLibServices>

Website: https://intranet.birmingham.ac.uk/library









From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clifford, Katrina M

Sent: 13 January 2014 13:59

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Good afternoon and welcome back to the discussion on adopting RDA where we're turning our thoughts to training.



If you're just catching up with the morning discussion (and thank you to all those who have already contributed), then feel free to continue to reply to any messages.



As with the morning session, we'll have some prompts to direct the discussion, but please post anything you think is relevant.  If you're posting about something new, then please give your subject header a relevant title so that those participating can keep track of conversations more easily.



A reminder that if you're replying to messages and want them to post to the list, then hit 'Reply to all' rather than just 'Reply' as that'll go only to the sender of the message and not the whole list.



To start this session, I'd like to start by asking



How did you approach/are you approaching training? - this can be for those in your team, or as touched upon this morning, for those who don't catalogue directly but still might be affected.



Katrina





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Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://lse.ac.uk/emailDisclaimer









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This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Library of Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.







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------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:38:59 -0000

From:    "Young, Thurstan" <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



I think training does need to be tailored to the needs of the individual’s role. However, its useful for cataloguers / non cataloguers to use the same WEMI based vocabulary in order to make sure that the same concepts are understood in the same way by all those involved with an RDA implementation. Examples which illustrate these concepts are an important bridge to understanding.



 



Thurstan 



 



 



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Esther Arens

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:05

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



 



I think FRBR/WEMI are quite useful for those who'll be working with the RDA Toolkit because of its structure. I'm not so sure for those who are "just" end users of the catalogue. Maybe Bibframe's WIA (work - instance - annotation) would be sufficient as a concept? My experience from the FRBR workshops showed there was the most discussion & criticism around the distinction between Expression and Manifestation. Obviously, like mentioned by several of you, non-cataloguers might just need to see examples of concrete changes between AACR2 and RDA. Things like the relator terms don't really need explanation, do they?



 



Esther



  



Gesendet: Montag, 13. Januar 2014 um 14:48 Uhr

Von: "Nicky Ransom" <[log in to unmask]>

An: [log in to unmask]

Betreff: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



I did include a section on FRBR/WEMI when I did a short presentation to our subject librarians a year or so ago when they were still doing cataloguing. It was at the time that we were first seeing RDA records in our catalogue. However, judging by the blank looks, either a) I wasn’t very good at explaining it, or b) they just didn’t care – all they really wanted to know what – “what looks different?”.



 



So  I don’t think I will include it when I next do any presentations for general or Tech Services staff, other than perhaps to say that there is a whole theory behind the changes and they can look online [link to FRBR introduction videos] if they are interested to know more. 



 



Nicky



 



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jackie Johnson (Library Services)

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:42

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



 



I did wonder about explaining FRBR and WEMI and I'm honestly still not sure. I've got rather bogged down in trying to make it comprehensible and I'm not sure I've succeeded. I've thought of including it because FRBRisation is a term that is being bandied around here quite a bit now. I have memories of when I was trying explain the library catalogue to a group a while ago and somebody was literally snoring. I would like to try and avoid this if at all possible. 



 



I would be interested to hear what other people think. Admittedly I'm talking about general staff here, not para-professionals. I think in the case of the latter we would have to try and cover it. I can't see how we can avoid it if we are 'selling' RDA,  as it were, and explaining why we're using it. 



 



Jackie 



 



 





Jackie Johnson                    

Metadata Team Leader



Library Services

University of Birmingham

Edgbaston

Birmingham

B15 2TT

[log in to unmask]

0121-414-2767



 



Please note I do not work Mondays



 



Twitter: @uoblibservices <https://twitter.com/UoBLibServices> 



Website: https://intranet.birmingham.ac.uk/library



 



 



 



 



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Helen Williams

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:30

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



 



Can I ask, in terms of training para-professional cataloguing staff are people planning on teaching FRBR and WEMI.  Like Katrina I’ve focused on the actual practicalities of RDA for now with the thought that I will return to FRBR and WEMI when our catalogues are more structured in that way.  But I’d be interested to hear what others are doing. 



Helen 



 



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clifford, Katrina M

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:26

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



 



Thanks for this Jackie. I’m interested to see you’ve built in time for discussion sessions as well as just training. Do you anticipate continuing these once you start cataloguing fully?



 



I’m also interested in the whole WEMI thing. I suspect I’ve not given that as much thought as I should have compared to the actual practicalities of doing RDA. Maybe that’s incredibly blinkered of me though…..



 



Katrina



 



Katrina Clifford



Ext: 62118

[log in to unmask]



 



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jackie Johnson (Library Services)

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:17

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



 



We have drawn up a training programme to take place over the next few months, starting with an introductory session for all staff, then more tailored sessions for cataloguing staff, with the expectation that they will do some self tutoring probably using the Cambridge materials (thanks very much for these), plus some discussion sessions. As mentioned earlier, trying to explain FRBR, and WEMI etc to the uninitiated, even the initiated, is quite a challenge! 



 



Jackie 



 



 





Jackie Johnson                    

Metadata Team Leader



Library Services

University of Birmingham  

Edgbaston

Birmingham

B15 2TT

[log in to unmask]

0121-414-2767



 



Please note I do not work Mondays



 



Twitter: @uoblibservices <https://twitter.com/UoBLibServices> 



Website: https://intranet.birmingham.ac.uk/library



 



 



 



 



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clifford, Katrina M

Sent: 13 January 2014 13:59

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



 



Good afternoon and welcome back to the discussion on adopting RDA where we’re turning our thoughts to training.



 



If you’re just catching up with the morning discussion (and thank you to all those who have already contributed), then feel free to continue to reply to any messages.



 



As with the morning session, we’ll have some prompts to direct the discussion, but please post anything you think is relevant.  If you're posting about something new, then please give your subject header a relevant title so that those participating can keep track of conversations more easily.



 



A reminder that if you’re replying to messages and want them to post to the list, then hit ‘Reply to all’ rather than just ‘Reply’ as that’ll go only to the sender of the message and not the whole list.



 



To start this session, I’d like to start by asking 



 



How did you approach/are you approaching training? – this can be for those in your team, or as touched upon this morning, for those who don’t catalogue directly but still might be affected.



 



Katrina



 





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------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:51:09 -0000

From:    "Young, Thurstan" <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: training



Hi Amy,



 



Please see the following link which provides a list of available RDA

training resources. I realise the URL includes 'AACR' rather than 'RDA'

but don't let this put you off :



 



http://www.slainte.org.uk/AACR/training.htm



 



Hopefully, one of the packages will suit or come close to suiting your

needs. The British Library used Library of Congress materials as the

basis of its training. 



 



Thurstan



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Amy

Staniforth [mws]

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:06

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] training



 



Hi,



 



There are only two of us here and I'm aware that some of the early

training we had was perhaps too early to be of much use beyond awareness

raising (useful itself, of course!) 



I was wondering if colleagues who have been through this or are

currently implementing RDA would recommend particular training before

drawing up documentation and other forms of training during

implementation itself?



 



Many thanks



 



Amy



------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:55:45 +0000

From:    "Clifford, Katrina M" <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: training



That's great, thanks. I've found the 'cheat sheets' that many places have put up on their sites invaluable as prompts for remembering what to do when you have the item in hand rather than wade through training material.



Also I have a 'test record' that I copy and use as a framework when cataloguing monographs from scratch when there are no records available so that takes care of a lot of the fields such as the 33X and the 264_4 etc... (plus remembering the i in the LRD field).



Katrina



Katrina Clifford



Ext: 62118

[log in to unmask]





From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Young, Thurstan

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:51

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] training



Hi Amy,



Please see the following link which provides a list of available RDA training resources. I realise the URL includes 'AACR' rather than 'RDA' but don't let this put you off :



http://www.slainte.org.uk/AACR/training.htm



Hopefully, one of the packages will suit or come close to suiting your needs. The British Library used Library of Congress materials as the basis of its training.



Thurstan

From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Amy Staniforth [mws]

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:06

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] training



Hi,



There are only two of us here and I'm aware that some of the early training we had was perhaps too early to be of much use beyond awareness raising (useful itself, of course!)

I was wondering if colleagues who have been through this or are currently implementing RDA would recommend particular training before drawing up documentation and other forms of training during implementation itself?



Many thanks



Amy



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------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:57:03 +0000

From:    "Clifford, Katrina M" <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: training



I think that the CIG site also covers a lot of the same resources but there might be things there too http://www.cilip.org.uk/cataloguing-and-indexing-group/professional-tools-and-resources/rda that are of use to people.



Katrina



Katrina Clifford



Ext: 62118

[log in to unmask]





From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Young, Thurstan

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:51

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] training



Hi Amy,



Please see the following link which provides a list of available RDA training resources. I realise the URL includes 'AACR' rather than 'RDA' but don't let this put you off :



http://www.slainte.org.uk/AACR/training.htm



Hopefully, one of the packages will suit or come close to suiting your needs. The British Library used Library of Congress materials as the basis of its training.



Thurstan

From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Amy Staniforth [mws]

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:06

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] training



Hi,



There are only two of us here and I'm aware that some of the early training we had was perhaps too early to be of much use beyond awareness raising (useful itself, of course!)

I was wondering if colleagues who have been through this or are currently implementing RDA would recommend particular training before drawing up documentation and other forms of training during implementation itself?



Many thanks



Amy



This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email

Security System.



This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email



------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:59:16 +0000

From:    "Clifford, Katrina M" <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Separate training environment?



As a final question I wonder if anyone used any form of staging or mirror version of their LMS (or something similar) to create practice records in?



I know from doing general training that remembering to scratch extra records from the system afterwards can be a pain!



Katrina



Katrina Clifford



Ext: 62118

[log in to unmask]





From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Young, Thurstan

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:51

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] training



Hi Amy,



Please see the following link which provides a list of available RDA training resources. I realise the URL includes 'AACR' rather than 'RDA' but don't let this put you off :



http://www.slainte.org.uk/AACR/training.htm



Hopefully, one of the packages will suit or come close to suiting your needs. The British Library used Library of Congress materials as the basis of its training.



Thurstan

From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Amy Staniforth [mws]

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:06

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] training



Hi,



There are only two of us here and I'm aware that some of the early training we had was perhaps too early to be of much use beyond awareness raising (useful itself, of course!)

I was wondering if colleagues who have been through this or are currently implementing RDA would recommend particular training before drawing up documentation and other forms of training during implementation itself?



Many thanks



Amy



This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email

Security System.



This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email



------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 16:00:14 +0000

From:    Helen Williams <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Close of day 1





Thanks for another excellent afternoon of discussion.  It's very helpful to be exchanging information and experiences.

It's got to 4pm, so we're finishing for this afternoon and will be back at 10am tomorrow morning when Thurstan will be opening the day with some discussion related to policy.



I hope everyone has a good evening

Best wishes

Helen



Helen Williams

Assistant Librarian, Bibliographic Services



LSE Library Services

The London School of Economics and Political Science

10 Portugal Street

London WC2A 2HD



[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

020 7955 2998





Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communica



------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 16:09:09 +0000

From:    Kate Kluttz <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: Separate training environment?



I'm afraid we've just been jumping straight in, though that may explain why I'm still so slow creating RDA records.  But I like the idea!



Kate Kluttz



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clifford, Katrina M

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:59

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] Separate training environment?



As a final question I wonder if anyone used any form of staging or mirror version of their LMS (or something similar) to create practice records in?



I know from doing general training that remembering to scratch extra records from the system afterwards can be a pain!



Katrina



Katrina Clifford



Ext: 62118

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Young, Thurstan

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:51

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] training



Hi Amy,



Please see the following link which provides a list of available RDA training resources. I realise the URL includes 'AACR' rather than 'RDA' but don't let this put you off :



http://www.slainte.org.uk/AACR/training.htm



Hopefully, one of the packages will suit or come close to suiting your needs. The British Library used Library of Congress materials as the basis of its training.



Thurstan

From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Amy Staniforth [mws]

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:06

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] training



Hi,



There are only two of us here and I'm aware that some of the early training we had was perhaps too early to be of much use beyond awareness raising (useful itself, of course!)

I was wondering if colleagues who have been through this or are currently implementing RDA would recommend particular training before drawing up documentation and other forms of training during implementation itself?



Many thanks



Amy



This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email

Security System.



This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email

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________________________________



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Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 17:12:29 +0100

From:    Esther Arens <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Aw: [CIG-E-FORUM] Separate training environment?



[Message contains invalid MIME fields or encoding and could not be processed]



------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 16:35:24 +0000

From:    Helen Williams <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Hi Kate

Sorry for the slow - I had to go to a meeting and have only just got back!  I've only just started and have been looking at RDA and Serials cataloguing by Ed Jones.  But I've not got far into it yet, so would be interested to know if others have come across good resources as well.

Helen



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kate Kluttz

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:00

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Ah, serials ... I haven't even scratched the surface with them and my suggestion of "RDA serials cataloguging could be a great development opportunity for you to take on!" to staff has been met with eyerolls so far.  Helen, do you have any favourite serials resources you can recommend?





Kate Kluttz

Acquisitions & Metadata Librarian

University of the Arts London Library Services

020 7514 8586

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

www.arts.ac.uk/library<http://www.arts.ac.uk/library>

[twitter-icon (1)]<https://twitter.com/UAL_Libraries>  [facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/UALlibraries>   [wordpress-icon] <http://blogs.arts.ac.uk/libraryservices/>   [ask_us_icon_blue tinier] <http://arts.ac.libanswers.com/index.php>









From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Helen Williams

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:28

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Although I started learning RDA on a DIY approach I'm in the unusual position that I was then fortunate enough to attend some training with Barbara Tillett.  As a result of that and the (very helpful) Cambridge, BL and Oxford materials, I did some very training for the team introducing RDA and explaining how we would deal with RDA copy cataloguing , and I've also been able to produce our internal documentation.



Two members of my team have watched the Cambridge training modules and they are now producing training based on our documentation which they will deliver to the team.  We are meeting on Wed this week for another discussion about that, but the current plan is for one session with the whole team, and then sessions with individuals or pairs to supplement that group training.



Despite having been on a course and watched online training etc I'm aware that there is still a lot I need to learn, in particular to do with formats other than monographs, so it's been very useful to hear about the sources people are using for DVDs this morning.  I've just started last week trying to teach myself RDA for serials, but as I don't actually do any serials cataloguing it could potentially take me a bit longer to get my head round that I think!



Helen

From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jackie Johnson (Library Services)

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:17

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



We have drawn up a training programme to take place over the next few months, starting with an introductory session for all staff, then more tailored sessions for cataloguing staff, with the expectation that they will do some self tutoring probably using the Cambridge materials (thanks very much for these), plus some discussion sessions. As mentioned earlier, trying to explain FRBR, and WEMI etc to the uninitiated, even the initiated, is quite a challenge!



Jackie







Jackie Johnson

Metadata Team Leader

Library Services

University of Birmingham

Edgbaston

Birmingham

B15 2TT

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

0121-414-2767



Please note I do not work Mondays



Twitter: @uoblibservices<https://twitter.com/UoBLibServices>

Website: https://intranet.birmingham.ac.uk/library









From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clifford, Katrina M

Sent: 13 January 2014 13:59

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Good afternoon and welcome back to the discussion on adopting RDA where we're turning our thoughts to training.



If you're just catching up with the morning discussion (and thank you to all those who have already contributed), then feel free to continue to reply to any messages.



As with the morning session, we'll have some prompts to direct the discussion, but please post anything you think is relevant.  If you're posting about something new, then please give your subject header a relevant title so that those participating can keep track of conversations more easily.



A reminder that if you're replying to messages and want them to post to the list, then hit 'Reply to all' rather than just 'Reply' as that'll go only to the sender of the message and not the whole list.



To start this session, I'd like to start by asking



How did you approach/are you approaching training? - this can be for those in your team, or as touched upon this morning, for those who don't catalogue directly but still might be affected.



Katrina





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------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 13 Jan 2014 22:03:57 +0000

From:    Bernadette O'Reilly <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Hello all



Just catching up with today's discussion, since I wasn't free to follow it live.  OLIS, the community of Oxford University Libraries, implemented RDA at the same time as LC, BL, Cambridge and others.  (We prefer to call it April Fools' Day here - no one here was cataloguing on 31 March, Easter Sunday.)  Because OLIS has about 200 cataloguers scattered through about 100 libraries (Bodleian, college and departmental) we had to manage with 1 day of contact training per cataloguer, only about 5.5 hours allowing for breaks.  Many OLIS cataloguers are part-time and/or are generalists who do only small amounts of cataloguing, which makes it unrealistic (as well as prohibitively expensive) to expect everybody to have a thorough knowledge of the RDA Toolkit, so our training and reference documentation is fairly freestanding and follows MARC order rather than Toolkit structure.  You can find it at http://www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/our-work/cataloguing



We have only 5 Toolkit subscriptions, which seems to be adequate.



We use Aleph, and our systems cataloguer has created some neat fixes to help with AACR2>RDA conversion.  As well as doing the usual things like changing 260 to 264 and 'p.' to 'pages', the fixes insert a local field which warns that the record is only partially converted and prevents export to RLUK and OCLC, which means that even acquisitions staff and paraprofessionals can safely download AACR2 records and use the fix.  The local field is deleted only when a cataloguer has finalised the record.  However, we do not convert 'trusted' AACR2 records, e.g. post-2005 LC and BNB full-level records.



We do not expect to retroconvert most of our existing records, although we have to convert individual records which need serious attention, given that we no longer expect cataloguers to be able to edit in AACR2.  But we will probably add 33X fields (and possibly relators) globally to our AACR2 records if/when we get a resource discovery tool which can make good use of them.  In the meantime we display the GMH in AACR2 records and also generate a quasi-GMH in our discovery tool (Primo) for RDA records for the sake of a consistent display.  We do not display relators, because Primo would treat them as part of the hyperlink for the AAP.



We are fairly relaxed about hybrids now.  For instance, we aren't too bothered if AACR2 records lack abbreviations.  More structurally, the replacement of AACR2 multi-language headings in LCNAF (e.g. Homer. Iliad. English & Greek) with RDA single-language AAPs will mean that a lot of existing AACR2 bibliographic records will have to have their 130 or 240 fields replaced with multiple analytical 7XX fields, but we will leave the rest of the record as AACR2.



Best of luck to everyone who is planning to implement.



Bernadette

*******************

Bernadette O'Reilly

Catalogue Support Librarian

Bodleian Libraries,

Osney One Building

Osney Mead

Oxford OX2 0EW.

For cataloguing advice: [log in to unmask]

For course enquiries (cataloguing, holdings & items): [log in to unmask]

For other correspondence: [log in to unmask]

01865 2-77134

*******************



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clifford, Katrina M

Sent: 13 January 2014 15:01

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



It seems a lot of the training is happening in a 'filtered down' way like this. I wonder if those of you who have done this think it has any benefits/problems compared with everyone going on the same training?



Related to this is the issue of self-paced learning. Those of you who took this approach, did you find it difficult to fit this round the rest of your work and, where it's happening in teams how did people check that everyone understood what they were learning?



Katrina



Katrina Clifford



Ext: 62118

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kate Kluttz

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:44

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



On training para-professional staff: after a couple of us at the professional level attended the "FRBR for the terrified" workshop, I gave the paraprofs in our department a boiled-down version one morning, including making them do that activity to place different "things" on the WEMI scale.  As the Toolkit is so organized around FRBR, I think they should at least have some introduction to it.  Also, a number of our paraprofessionals are doing or have recently done their library qualifications and therefore are interested in learning the more "advanced" aspects.



But I do expect that they'll perform their day to day work referring to our local documentation and not worrying much about FRBR.





Kate Kluttz

Acquisitions & Metadata Librarian

University of the Arts London Library Services

020 7514 8586

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

www.arts.ac.uk/library<http://www.arts.ac.uk/library>

[twitter-icon (1)]<https://twitter.com/UAL_Libraries>  [facebook] <https://www.facebook.com/UALlibraries>   [wordpress-icon] <http://blogs.arts.ac.uk/libraryservices/>   [ask_us_icon_blue tinier] <http://arts.ac.libanswers.com/index.php>









From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Helen Williams

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:30

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Can I ask, in terms of training para-professional cataloguing staff are people planning on teaching FRBR and WEMI.  Like Katrina I've focused on the actual practicalities of RDA for now with the thought that I will return to FRBR and WEMI when our catalogues are more structured in that way.  But I'd be interested to hear what others are doing.

Helen



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clifford, Katrina M

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:26

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Thanks for this Jackie. I'm interested to see you've built in time for discussion sessions as well as just training. Do you anticipate continuing these once you start cataloguing fully?



I'm also interested in the whole WEMI thing. I suspect I've not given that as much thought as I should have compared to the actual practicalities of doing RDA. Maybe that's incredibly blinkered of me though.....



Katrina



Katrina Clifford



Ext: 62118

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>



From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jackie Johnson (Library Services)

Sent: 13 January 2014 14:17

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



We have drawn up a training programme to take place over the next few months, starting with an introductory session for all staff, then more tailored sessions for cataloguing staff, with the expectation that they will do some self tutoring probably using the Cambridge materials (thanks very much for these), plus some discussion sessions. As mentioned earlier, trying to explain FRBR, and WEMI etc to the uninitiated, even the initiated, is quite a challenge!



Jackie







Jackie Johnson

Metadata Team Leader

Library Services

University of Birmingham

Edgbaston

Birmingham

B15 2TT

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

0121-414-2767



Please note I do not work Mondays



Twitter: @uoblibservices<https://twitter.com/UoBLibServices>

Website: https://intranet.birmingham.ac.uk/library









From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Clifford, Katrina M

Sent: 13 January 2014 13:59

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] CIG Monday Afternoon session: Training



Good afternoon and welcome back to the discussion on adopting RDA where we're turning our thoughts to training.



If you're just catching up with the morning discussion (and thank you to all those who have already contributed), then feel free to continue to reply to any messages.



As with the morning session, we'll have some prompts to direct the discussion, but please post anything you think is relevant.  If you're posting about something new, then please give your subject header a relevant title so that those participating can keep track of conversations more easily.



A reminder that if you're replying to messages and want them to post to the list, then hit 'Reply to all' rather than just 'Reply' as that'll go only to the sender of the message and not the whole list.



To start this session, I'd like to start by asking



How did you approach/are you approaching training? - this can be for those in your team, or as touched upon this morning, for those who don't catalogue directly but still might be affected.



Katrina





This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email

Security System.



This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email

Security System.



This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email

Security System.



Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://lse.ac.uk/emailDisclaimer



________________________________



This email and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee and may contain confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email and/or its attachments you must not take any action based upon them and you must not copy or show them to anyone. Please send the email back to us and immediately and permanently delete it and its attachments.



Where this email is unrelated to the business of University of the Arts London or of any of its group companies the opinions expressed in it are the opinions of the sender and do not necessarily constitute those of University of the Arts London (or the relevant group company).



Where the sender's signature indicates that the email is sent on behalf of London Artscom Limited the following also applies: London Artscom Limited is a company registered in England and Wales under company number 02361261. Registered Office: University of the Arts London, 272 High Holborn, London WC1V 7EY.



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This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email

Security System.



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End of CIG-E-FORUM Digest - 13 Jan 2014 (#2014-6)

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