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Subject:

Re: Antw: Re: [NEW-MEDIA-CURATING] Net.art.history?

From:

Simon Biggs <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Simon Biggs <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 4 Oct 2013 15:06:21 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (424 lines)

Reply

Reply

As I said, it's fragmentary. I never set out to archive these lists. I just filed relevant posts and still happen to have them. They would need to be reviewed and structured as many are in digest mode or simple text exports of whole email folders.

What do you mean by "leave"?

best

Simon


On 4 Oct 2013, at 15:01, "Oliver Grau" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Dear Simon,
> 
> this sounds like a remarkable source! May we ask if you can leave a copy
> for the Archive of Digital Art (ADA) ?
> 
> 
> Many regards, 
> 
> 
> Oliver 
> 
> 
>>>> Simon Biggs <[log in to unmask]> 04.10.13 13.59 Uhr >>>
> I have Rhizome posts going back to April 6, 1996 and Raw to October 3,
> 1999. Other lists I have posts for from the 1990's include A-Life,
> artnetweb, ASCII, Avatars, Consciousness Reframed, CU-SeeMe, DigiDance,
> DXR, Fine Art Forum, Infowar, ISEA-Forum, NetArtTrade, Nettime, Shock of
> the View, Thingist, Voti (which has a new book out documenting that
> discussion) and WebWalker. These are far from complete records, some are
> quite patchy - most are from extinct mail clients but I have simple text
> files of the posts. I'm happy to put them into a repository of some kind
> (doubt I want to go back through them though).
> 
> best
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
> On 4 Oct 2013, at 12:33, Josephine Bosma <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> Wow. That is amazing. I hope my English and my work have improved a
> bit over time.
>> 
>> This gives me an idea though. My own archive of 7-11 has vanished, as
> do my other mail archives of that time. Mez reminds me however that
> there are people who still have theirs. 
>> 
>> Would it be something to initiate a project, on online archive of
> mailing list archives? I for one really miss the early years of the
> Rhizome archives, from before it was called 'raw' (1997-2001). In fact,
> all of the Rhizome mailing list archives seem to have disappeared from
> their website. People who have (parts of) these could maybe be persuaded
> to share them. 
>> 
>> It would be great if this would also include earlier art 'lists' or
> mailboxes, including those on the early net and in BBS times. In Tilman
> Baumgärtel's first book on net.art is an interview with Rena Tangens and
> Padeluun, for example. They ran a 'mailbox' named 'Bionic'. It would
> also be great to have the Artex 'list' content in there, run by Robert
> Adrian.
>> 
>> http://www.medienkunstnetz.de/works/artex/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> 
>> J
>> *
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 4 okt. 2013, at 12:49, mez breeze wrote:
>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Charlotte Frost
> <[log in to unmask]
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Is this post one of the most iconic pieces of net art history?
>>>> http://www.nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-9703/msg00094.html
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> How about:
>>> 
>>> From: "Vuk Cosic" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Organization: KUD France Preseren
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:12:23 CET
>>> Subject: Re: [7-11] backbone
>>> Sender: [log in to unmask]
>>> Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>>> 
>>> ho
>>>> whats a net.art backbone?
>>> good one,
>>> i suppose it's a providers idea of 7-11
>>> sorta
>>> 
>>> v
>>> 
>>> ######################################################
>>> #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 071101010 07110101 0711.00100#
>>> #                                                    #
>>> #         _____     _ _               _____     _ _  #
>>> # __/\__ |___  |   / / |      __/\__ |___  |   / / | #
>>> # \    /    / /____| | |      \    /    / /____| | | #
>>> # /_  _\   / /_____| | |      /_  _\   / /_____| | | #
>>> #   \/    /_/      |_|_|        \/    /_/      |_|_| #
>>> #                                                    #
>>> #                                                    #
>>> #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 071101010 07110101 0711.00100#
>>> ########### http://www.ljudmila.org/7-11/ ############
>>> 
>>> 
>>> and:
>>> 
>>> X-Sender: [log in to unmask]
>>> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 07:14:01 -0700
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> From: nov 97 <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: [7-11] net art homework
>>> Sender: [log in to unmask]
>>> Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>>> 
>>> http://jupiter.ucsd.edu/~bookchin/finalProject.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / /
> /____|
>>> | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | #
>> #
>>> | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | #
>>> | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | #
>> #
>>> _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / /
> /____|
>>> _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / /
> /____|
>>> | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____|
>>> \/ /_/ |_|_| \/ /_/ |_|_| # > # # > # # > #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 > #
> \ /
>>> / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | |
> # >
>>>>> Thank you for participating in 7-11 MAILING LIST > SUBSCRIBER
>>> SATISFACTION SURVEY. > > > > >
>>> ###################################################### >
>>> #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 071101010 07110101 0711.00100# > # # > #
> _____ _ _
>>> _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / /
> /____|
>>> | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | #
>> #
>>> \/ /_/ |_|_| \/ /_/ |_|_| # > # # > # # > #1.7.100(today="7-11.00
>>> 071101010 07110101 0711.00100# > ###########
> http://www.ljudmila.org/7-11/
>>> _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ /
>>> /
> /____|##################################################################
>>>> ## ############      ########## # ### ### ##      ###### >
>>> ####  ######  #### #### ######  ##############  ###### >
>>> # ####  ##### #### ########## ######  ###   ####### >
>>>> 
>>>> -
>>> 
>>> [that link waybackmachined:
>>> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/20070206180348/http://jupiter.ucsd.edu/~bookchin/finalProject.html
>>> ]
>>> 
>>> Also:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:42:36 +0100
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: [7-11] Majordomo results: A word from the hostess.
>>> Sender: [log in to unmask]
>>> Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>>>>>> who 7-11 [log in to unmask]
>>> Members of list '7-11':
>>> 
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> 
>>> 24 subscribers
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / /
> /____|
>>> | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | #
>> #
>>> | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | #
>> #
>>> | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | #
>> #
>>> | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | #
>> #
>>> _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / /
> /____|
>>> _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / /
> /____|
>>> | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____|
>>> \/ /_/ |_|_| \/ /_/ |_|_| # > # # > # # > #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 > #
> \ /
>>> / /____| | | \ / / /____| | | # > # \ / / /____| | | \ / / /____| | |
> # >
>>>>> Thank you for participating in 7-11 MAILING LIST > SUBSCRIBER
>>> SATISFACTION SURVEY. > > > > >
>>> ###################################################### >
>>> #1.7.100(today="7-11.00 071101010 07110101 0711.00100# > # # > #
> _____ _ _
>>> _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ / /
> /____|
>>> | | \ / / /____| | | # > # /_ _\ / /_____| | | /_ _\ / /_____| | | #
>> #
>>> \/ /_/ |_|_| \/ /_/ |_|_| # > # # > # # > #1.7.100(today="7-11.00
>>> 071101010 07110101 0711.00100# > ###########
> http://www.ljudmila.org/7-11/
>>> _____ _ _ # > # __/\__ |___ | / / | __/\__ |___ | / / | # > # \ /
>>> /
> /____|##################################################################
>>>> ## ############      ########## # ### ### ##      ###### >
>>> ####  ######  #### #### ######  ##############  ###### >
>>> # #>> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:59:39 -0800 (PST)
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> From: [log in to unmask] (Natalie Bookchin)
>>> Subject: Re: [7-11] A word from the hostess.
>>> Sender: [log in to unmask]
>>> Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>>> 
>>> Interview
>>> Natalie: Do you want to know why there is no net art in california?
>>> 
>>> Natalie: Um.. there isn't? Yes do tell me why?
>>> 
>>> Natalie: I think its because we dont have time to waste on things
> that we
>>> cant hang in our beach condos.
>>> 
>>> Natalie And of course we're also buzy walking on the beach, looking
> at the
>>> ocean, napping under the palm trees, eating the best of pacific rim
> cooking
>>> 
>>> Natalie: also we dont have the net yet hooked up in our cars yet
>>> 
>>> Natalie: thats not true
>>> 
>>> Natalie: yes it is.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _________                          _________
>>> |  _____  |                        |  _____  |
>>> | [_____] |                        | [_____] |
>>> |         |                        |         |
>>> |         |========================|         |
>>> |         |              [][][][][]|         |
>>> |   __    |_____________ [][][][][]|    __   |
>>> |  (__)   | FM 7-11 ****|  ========|   (__)  |
>>> |  _____  |_____________|  **VOL{} |  _____  |
>>> | /     \ |                        | /     \ |
>>> ||  ( )  ||________________________||  ( )  ||
>>> | \_____/ | CD | TAPE | TAPE | AUX | \_____/ |
>>> |_________|____|___1__|___2__|_____|_________|
>>> 
>>> LET'S CRANK THE SOUND WAY UP
>>> LET'S DANCE AROUND THE GLOBE
>>> NO ONE STOP UNTIL WE ALL DROP
>>> 
>>> [+ Make no mistake, "net.art" as a discussion topic has been
> oscillating
>>> constantly since 97]:
>>> 
>>> From: dd <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>,
>>>      "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: RE: [7-11] the meaning of the inner circle
>>> Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 00:51:19 +0200
>>> X-Ms-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00
>>> Sender: [log in to unmask]
>>> Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>>> 
>>> Essential to art is the work of art.
>>> Essential to work of art are the spectators and the artist.
>>> Essential to both is what could be art produced by  works today.
>>> 
>>> The form of every artwork could not full of meaning, but full of new
>>> artistic and dynamic values.
>>> 
>>> We can still talk/meet where it is possible to make an effort for
> another
>>> work.
>>> where, spectators and artists are the essential faces who charges a
> living
>>> form. The more dispersed of the circle of both, generates the more
> concrete
>>> of the form,  in its classical fond.
>>> 
>>> Net by itself is not enough, it needs the art form, generated by what
> could
>>> be the work.
>>> The materials for the work could be everything. The  form's life
> between
>>> people, generates the materials,  not the opposite.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> the inner circle is an interesting phenomenon
>>> I have been contemplating on its meaning
>>> just today I found in some old nettime posting
>>> a possible insight into what meaning is in general
>>> which seems very useful for the question:
>>> what is the meaning of an inner circle?
>>> 
>>> "The line of the argument, as it
>>> was developed by Ernesto Laclau, goes as follows: He starts from the
>>> Saussurian assumption that meaning arises only within a system of
>>> differences. The possibility of a system of differences, however,
> depends
>>> on the possibility of its limits - and these limits cannot belong to
> the
>>> side of the system, since in that case the limit was just another
>>> difference and, hence, no limit. It is only as far as we perceive the
>>> outside of the system as a radical outside (and the limit therefore
> as an
>>> exclusionary limit) that we can speak of systematicity or meaning at
> all.
>>> As a consequence the limits cannot be signified themselves, they can
> only
>>> 'show themselves as the interruption or breakdown of the process of
>>> signification' (Laclau 1996:37). The radicality of the radical
> outside
>>> (non-meaning) is not only the condition of possibility for the
>>>> of impossibility of the establishment of a structure as closed
> totality
>>> (full meaning). The effect of the exclusionary limit, in other words,
> 'is
>>> that it introduces an essential ambivalence within the system of
>>> differences constituted by those limits' (Laclau 1996:38)."
>>> 
>>> What is essential to net.art?
>>> Where can we still talk/meet and where not?
>>> Who decides on what thinking who to prank?
>>> Are pranked inner circle?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> happy days
>>> 
>>> 
>>> J
>>> *
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> | facebook.com/MezBreezeDesign
> <http://www.facebook.com/MezBreezeDesign>
>>> | twitter.com/MezBreezeDesign
>>> | en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mez_Breeze
>> 
> 
> 
> Simon Biggs
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.littlepig.org.uk @SimonBiggsUK
> http://amazon.com/author/simonbiggs
> 
> [log in to unmask] Edinburgh College of Art, University of Edinburgh
> http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/edinburgh-college-art/school-of-art/staff/staff?person_id=182&cw_xml=profile.php
> http://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/simon-biggs%285dfcaf34-56b1-4452-9100-aaab96935e31%29.html
> 
> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/  http://www.elmcip.net/ 
> http://www.movingtargets.org.uk/  http://designinaction.com/
> MSc by Research in Interdisciplinary Creative Practices 
> http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/postgraduate/degrees?id=656&cw_xml=details.php
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


Simon Biggs
[log in to unmask]
http://www.littlepig.org.uk @SimonBiggsUK http://amazon.com/author/simonbiggs

[log in to unmask] Edinburgh College of Art, University of Edinburgh
http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/edinburgh-college-art/school-of-art/staff/staff?person_id=182&cw_xml=profile.php
http://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/simon-biggs%285dfcaf34-56b1-4452-9100-aaab96935e31%29.html

http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/  http://www.elmcip.net/  http://www.movingtargets.org.uk/  http://designinaction.com/
MSc by Research in Interdisciplinary Creative Practices  http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/postgraduate/degrees?id=656&cw_xml=details.php

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