SMC reports.......why don't we have a moan about those as well? 50 (and counting) pieces of work in Gloucestershire without reports or any clear indication of whether a report was even required.......
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: 05 September 2013 09:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Wednesday moan!
This has been fed back to this part of EH on numerous occasions and reporting to the HER is, I understand, a condition for funding of project work. Doesn't mean people do it though.
Reminds me, I must complete that report I'm required to do as a condition of SMC.
--
Chris Webster
Somerset Historic Environment Record
Somerset County Council
Somerset Heritage Centre
Brunel Way
Taunton
TA2 6SH
01823 347434
Online HER at www.somerset.gov.uk/her
________________________________
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records on behalf of Ben Wallace
Sent: Thu 05/09/2013 09:14
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Wednesday moan!
Alex,
Perhaps an item to raise at the next ALGAO HER Committee and discuss a way of taking it forward. EH do attend as observers so could take the feedback to pass on to their colleagues.
Ben
Ben Wallace
(Historic Environment Record Manager)
BA (EU) Hons, MA, MIfA
Warwickshire Historic Environment Record Archaeological Information and Advice (AIA) Archives and Historic Environment, Heritage and Culture Warwickshire, Localities and Community Safety, Communities
Warwickshire County Council
Phone: 01926 412734
Mailing Address: Archaeological Information and Advice, Communities, Warwickshire County Council, PO Box 43, Shire Hall, Warwick CV34 4SX
Physical Address: Archaeological Information and Advice, Communities, Warwickshire County Council, Barrack Street, Warwick CV34 4TH
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
Web: http://heritage.warwickshire.gov.uk/archaeology/historic-environment-record/
http://timetrail.warwickshire.gov.uk <http://timetrail.warwickshire.gov.uk/>
Visit our website heritage.warwickshire.gov.uk <http://heritage.warwickshire.gov.uk/> , follow us on Twitter @oisinthedeer and like our Facebook page Warwickshire Museum.
On 4 September 2013 14:17, Godden, Alex <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Thanks, (both) Chris - glad to see it's not just us!
The fact that it's a historic problem just adds to my sense of frustration. Thing is, there is increasing amounts of paperwork and advice notes coming out of English Heritage that make reference to the importance of HERs - which is a good thing, don't get me wrong - but when we have an ongoing situation dating back 20 years or so, doesn't the mis-communication of one or more EH departments essentially undermine the work/national advice that other EH departments are doing, for example the protection of heritage assets?
In some respects, it kind of makes the EH guidance look a little bit like lip-service, to be honest! How about raising this as an item on the next forum, as we keep coming across this time and time again...
Cheers!
Alex
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: 04 September 2013 13:43
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Wednesday moan!
Spot on, Chris. My old story is of going round an old mill building persuading the developer to undertake a building record and round the corner we found 2 EH building recorders doing a quick survey. For some reason the developer couldn't see why they had to pay for another... (And no, we didn't get the report.)
And the reason identified is also correct, EH don't tell each other what they do, so we shouldn't feel excluded.
Chris Webster
Historic Environment Record
Somerset County Council
Somerset Heritage Centre
Brunel Way
Taunton
TA2 6SF
01823 347434
Online HER: www.somerset.gov.uk/her
________________________________
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Wardle
Sent: 04 September 2013 13:37
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Wednesday moan!
Hi Alex,
It's far from a new problem. I can remember 15-20 years ago the old RCHME carried-out surveys of hillforts in Staffs and the SMR (forerunner of the HER now so ably managed by Suzy) only received copies when I queried it. Then, only a couple of years later, the same thing happened with report on the survey the RCHME carried out for the National Forest.
In those days of course reports probably had to be in the form of paper copies, which would have to be printed-off and sent by post. These days it would take very little effort on behalf an RCHME's successor, EH, to send an attachment to the HER. Though the really problem, both then and now, is that the various bits of EH never seem to communicate with each other.
Chris
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Godden, Alex
Sent: 04 September 2013 13:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Wednesday moan!
Hi all,
We've received a historical assessment carried out by English Heritage on the Whitehill/Bordon early 20th century military camps - a hot topic locally as various areas are up for re-development and one that has got various local parties involved, particularly local councillors and the district authority considering the local significance of the remaining buildings.
I'm not going to comment on the specific content of the assessment, but rather on the point that we did not receive this report as a matter of course from EH - we eventually got it (after asking) from the Homes and Communities Agency who are the current land-owner for part of the site, despite requesting it on several occasions from both the MOD and EH. Secondly, the report states that the information will (has) been deposited with AMIE and the NRHE, with no mention at all of deposition with the local HER - apart from if any building recording is carried out.
This raises a point which was made at the last HER Forum in Birmingham, namely that a lot of ongoing and future survey work carried out by or on behalf of EH is not being passed to the local HERs as a matter of course - I could name several other examples in Hampshire where we have found out about locally significant sites being discovered or at least surveyed by EH well after the event, and from a third or even fourth party. I realise that the results etc. are being made accessible through Pastscape, but (again as has been pointed out before) HERs do not have the time or resources to continually trawl through Pastscape in case anything new has been put up.
This example is particularly relevant as we (as the curators) are feeding into local development plans and advising on planning applications on a daily basis, using the HER as our evidence base. We cannot give an accurate input to the district plan that covers Whitehill/Bordon when surveys and assessments to ascertain the significance of heritage assets are being carried out and the information not being fed back to us.
Now for the bureaucratic bit! The NPPF specifically states
Paragraph 141 - 'Local planning authorities should make information about the significance of the historic environment gathered as part of plan-making or development management publicly accessible. They should also require developers to record and advance understanding of the significance of any heritage assets to be lost (wholly or in part) in a manner proportionate to their importance and the impact, and to make this evidence (and any archive generated) publicly accessible'
and Paragraph 158 - 'Each local planning authority should ensure that the Local Plan is based on adequate, up-to-date and relevant evidence about the economic, social and environmental characteristics and prospects of the area'
and Paragraph 169 - 'Local planning authorities should have up-to-date evidence about the historic
environment in their area and use it to assess the significance of heritage assets and the contribution they make to their environment. They should also use it to predict the likelihood that currently unidentified heritage assets, particularly sites of historic and archaeological interest, will be discovered in the future. Local planning authorities should either maintain or have access
to a historic environment record.'
We cannot be expected to carry out these duties if we are not supplied with this information. Can we please start the ball rolling on a mechanism that can ensure that work of this kind carried out under the EH remit is fed back to HERs?
Cheers!
Alex
Alex Godden BA (Hons) MA
Archaeologist/ Historic Data Manager
Strategic Environmental Delivery Group
Economy, Transport and Environment Department
Hampshire County Council
Tel. 01962 832338 HPSN 8 200 2338
Email: [log in to unmask]
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