JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for RADSTATS Archives


RADSTATS Archives

RADSTATS Archives


RADSTATS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

RADSTATS Home

RADSTATS Home

RADSTATS  June 2013

RADSTATS June 2013

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public archives

From:

Paul Ashton <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Paul Ashton <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 10 Jun 2013 18:29:18 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (466 lines)

More relevant part of the yougov poll to the discussion here:

"In the past few days, news reports suggest that British security services have had access to records kept by US intelligence services about British citizens’ online activity, even though the US agencies might have gained this information in ways that are currently illegal in Britain. If this information is correct, are you…
    
Pleased that the UK security services are getting information that might help them track down criminals and terrorists – 46%

Sorry that the UK agencies might be getting round British law to undermine our right to privacy – 39%

Don’t know – 15%

Once again, the public is divided, with slightly more people pleased rather than sorry.

Finally, we posed one dilemma that some people think is hypothetical but others believe to be all too real – whether security agencies should operate completely within the law at all times, or whether advances in technology mean that they should able, as some might put it, to do their work without one arm tied behind their backs.

If you had to choose between these two options, which would you prefer?

Britain’s police and security agencies should respect both our right to privacy and the right of Parliament to decide these matters; they should always obey the law – 45%

Britain’s police and security agencies must keep up with technology, if necessary going beyond the law in order to obtain information that help them fight serious crime and terrorism – 42%

Not sure – 13% "

Kellner's summary:
"So there is no majority for insisting on the rule of law – but neither do most people back GCHQ, MI5 or MI6 taking the law into their own hands. It is a moot point whether we should be reassured or appalled by the fact that law-breaking is backed four out of ten Britons. If the proportion is regarded as alarmingly high, this may reflect the fact that politicians and Parliament these days are held in such low regard."

Paul Ashton


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Ashton" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, 10 June, 2013 6:10:24 PM
Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public archives

Yougov poll just released in the wake of the Prism revelations:

"It has been suggested that the law should be changed to give police and security services access the records kept by mobile phone and internet service provider companies. These would include individuals’ web browsing, email and social media activity, though not the content of emails or social messages. In principle do you think this proposal...

Goes too far: it undermines our right to privacy - 38%

Is a good idea, given the way technology is evolving - 43%

Does not go far enough: the police and security services should also access to the content of emails and social messages - 8%

Don't know - 11% "

Kellner summarises:

"Thus 51% either back the main thrust of the bill, or would like to go even further, as opposed to the 38% who think the powers proposed by the Bill go too far. Women divide almost two-to-one (55-30%), while men divide almost exactly evenly (48-46%)."

Paul Ashton 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Moore" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, 10 June, 2013 5:50:33 PM
Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public archives

My understanding is that encryption is only absolutely secure if you have an early version of a Public Key Encryption program. After a certain date the US government ruled that PGP (for example) could not be exported unless it was in theory crackable by the NSA. So these programs were covered by the export of munitions legislation in the USA. There has been some to-ing and fro-ing  over this , so I'm not sure what the current state of the US law is. PGP has been improved over the years and some loopholes plugged (so much for earlier versions), but I don't think it would be exportable from the USA if there wasn't some way into it for the NSA. The NSA might, for example, require a trap-door into any strong encryption program - I just don't know. The original restriction was on the length of the key.
 In theory this stuff can not be decrypted with contemporary technology. But the use of the world's most powerful computers to crack routine private encrypted traffic would be an enormous waste of resources - much easier for the spooks to secrete a key-logger in your PC and read the plain text! Also if you use one of the Public key programs in the UK, under RIPA you can be required to disclose your key - and it would be a criminal offence then to tell anyone that this had happened.
One Time Pad probably guarantees total security, providing you do it by hand and not on a PC. But unless you're a 'rogue state' or a known target then it would all be a waste of your time. 

But if you just want to protect some data, maybe names and addresses of respondents - go ahead.

The following is interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy  



Robert



Professor Robert Moore
School of Sociology and Social Policy
Eleanor Rathbone Building
The University of Liverpool
L69 7ZA

Telephone and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456
________________________________________
From: email list for Radical Statistics [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of the.Duke.of.URL [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 10 June 2013 16:38
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public archives

How to keep others from spying on you.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-keep-the-feds-from-listening-2013-6

Public key encryption is the only really safe way to communicate these
days but it is a terrific hassle and for most people isn't worth it. Of
course, if you are going to use this technique, you will have to choose
two very large prime numbers to begin with. It goes without saying I
think that unless everyone does this at about the same time, anyone
doing this will immediately become a target.


Larry

------ Original Message ------
From: "Wells, Julian" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: 10/06/2013 15:11:38
Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public archives
>I'm in favour of keeping the RADSTATS archive open, for the following
>reasons:
>
>(1) as others have pointed out, if GCHQ or the CIA want to read them,
>JISCmail's privacy settings are unlikely to prove an obstacle.
>
>(2) it's a public discussion list, which anyone can subscribe
>themselves
>to, so the discussions ought to be a matter of public record.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Julian
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 10/06/2013 13:49, "Macfarlane, Alison" <[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
>
>>Please see the bottom email in the trail. This came from jiscmail last
>>week. Another email list I look after was keen to be private, but its
>>members are in a different situation from Radstats. So far we have
>>heard
>>from very few members, but these include people who have replied
>>several
>>times.
>>
>>If no one has replied by the end of today to say they want it kept
>>private, I will change it back.
>>
>>Best wishes, Alison
>>
>>Alison
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Humphrey Southall [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: 10 June 2013 13:35
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public
>>archives
>>
>>I am trying to get my head round this change:
>>
>>Given that JISCmail is funded entirely by the UK government via JISC,
>>a
>>government agency, and hosted on servers at the University of
>>Newcastle
>>in the UK. it is hard to see how another UK government agency, GCHQ,
>>needs assistance from a US company to eavesdrop on our discussions
>>....
>>
>>Conversely, it is not hard to see how there is public access to
>>Google's
>>indices -- and there are other search engines.
>>
>>I agree there should be a vote on re-opening the list archive, as they
>>are now closed, presumably as a result of Alison changing the setting
>>(I
>>just checked). I suppose there should also be a vote on moving it to
>>an
>>encrypted server somewhere outside the control of the UK and US
>>governments, if people are seriously concerned about who can access
>>it;
>>but having them on a UK-government funded server but closing them to
>>stop
>>GCHQ seeing them doesn't make any sense.
>>
>>Best wishes,
>>
>>Humphrey
>>
>>On 10 Jun 2013, at 12:42, Paul Ashton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>>  To discover the majority view, wouldn't it be necessary to poll
>>>members?
>>>
>>>  Paul Ashton
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Alison Macfarlane" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>  To: [log in to unmask]
>>>  Sent: Monday, 10 June, 2013 12:32:34 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public
>>>  archives
>>>
>>>  It's debatable whether Google /GCHQ make their booty public, though,
>>>isn't it? Having said that, if there is a majority which wants the
>>>setting changed back to public, this is easily done.
>>>
>>>  Alison
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: Paul Ashton [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>>  Sent: 10 June 2013 12:20
>>>  To: [log in to unmask]
>>>  Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public
>>>  archives
>>>
>>>  It's ironic, if not actually amusing, that academics who constantly
>>>demand that we have 'open government' and transparent dealings from
>>>various organisations and companies should now be hiding themselves
>>>from
>>>public gaze.
>>>
>>>  Paul Ashton
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Alison Macfarlane" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>  To: [log in to unmask]
>>>  Sent: Monday, 10 June, 2013 11:39:35 AM
>>>  Subject: FW: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public
>>>  archives
>>>
>>>  Following the warnings sent out by jiscmail last week, I have gone
>>>through the lists of which I am listowner and changed the
>>>configuration
>>>of archives from public to private. This means that list archives can
>>>only be viewed by members and not by whoever is in league with google
>>>and its cronies.
>>>
>>>  Please let me know if this causes any problems.
>>>
>>>  Alison Macfarlane
>>>
>>>
>>>  Subject: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public archives
>>>
>>>  Dear subscribers
>>>
>>>  We've had a lot of queries recently about the availability and
>>>visibility of JISCMail list archives in Google.
>>>
>>>  This is just a reminder that messages sent to a list with public
>>>archives will be available to anyone on the internet.
>>>
>>>  Your email will not be visible to non-subscribers, but remember if
>>>you
>>>reply to the list there may be information in your message which will
>>>be
>>>visible, such as your signature or attachments.
>>>
>>>  This list is configured with public archives.
>>>
>>>  JISCMail public list data has been available to search engines for
>>>many
>>>years. List owners choose whether their archives are public or
>>>private,
>>>so if you have any queries about whether a list should have public
>>>archives, then contact the list owner (see
>>>http://bit.ly/ContactListOwner for details).
>>>
>>>  Public list archives are an important and useful source of
>>>information
>>>to the communities that we support, they enable wider collaboration
>>>across educational research, learning, teaching and support networks
>>>and
>>>encourage new members.
>>>
>>>  We hope this makes the situation clearer.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Lisa
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  Lisa Vincent
>>>
>>>  Operations Manager
>>>  [log in to unmask]
>>>  0191 222 8179
>>>
>>>  JISCMail is a JISC Advance Service
>>>
>>>  ******************************************************
>>>  Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will
>>>go
>>>only to the sender of this message.
>>>  If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
>>>'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to
>>>[log in to unmask]
>>>  Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the
>>>sender
>>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held
>>>by
>>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
>>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and
>>>past
>>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
>>>www.radstats.org.uk.
>>>  *******************************************************
>>>
>>>  ******************************************************
>>>  Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will
>>>go
>>>only to the sender of this message.
>>>  If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
>>>'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to
>>>[log in to unmask]
>>>  Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the
>>>sender
>>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held
>>>by
>>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
>>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and
>>>past
>>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
>>>www.radstats.org.uk.
>>>  *******************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>  ******************************************************
>>>  Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will
>>>go
>>>only to the sender of this message.
>>>  If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
>>>'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to
>>>[log in to unmask]
>>>  Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the
>>>sender
>>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held
>>>by
>>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
>>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and
>>>past
>>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
>>>www.radstats.org.uk.
>>>  *******************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>  ******************************************************
>>>  Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will
>>>go
>>>  only to the sender of this message.
>>>  If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
>>>  'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to
>>>  [log in to unmask]
>>>  Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the
>>>sender
>>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held
>>>by
>>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
>>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and
>>>past
>>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
>>>www.radstats.org.uk.
>>>  *******************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>  ******************************************************
>>>  Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will
>>>go
>>>  only to the sender of this message.
>>>  If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
>>>  'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to
>>>  [log in to unmask]
>>>  Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the
>>>sender
>>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held
>>>by
>>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
>>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and
>>>past
>>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
>>>www.radstats.org.uk.
>>>  *******************************************************
>>
>>******************************************************
>>Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will go
>>only to the sender of this message.
>>If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
>>'Reply-to-All'
>>button to send your message automatically to [log in to unmask]
>>Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender
>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held
>>by
>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and
>>past
>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
>>www.radstats.org.uk.
>>*******************************************************
>>
>>******************************************************
>>Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
>>message will go only to the sender of this message.
>>If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
>>'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
>>to [log in to unmask]
>>Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender
>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held
>>by
>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and
>>past
>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
>>www.radstats.org.uk.
>>*******************************************************
>>
>>This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
>>Security System.
>
>This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
>Security System.
>
>******************************************************
>Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
>message will go only to the sender of this message.
>If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
>'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
>to [log in to unmask]
>Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender
>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held
>by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and
>past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
>www.radstats.org.uk.
>*******************************************************

******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************

******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************


******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************


******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager