When I was working one of the major problems with forms was that they all
wanted information in very small boxes - and the boxes had no logic - or
uniformity - in how they were arrayed.
*Is* there any Best Practice on how forms are organised - and if there is,
does it include outside bodies such as local trusts - acute and community -
and social services (and now, I suppose, local and national public health
and local authorities)?

I think there might be a problem having the secretaries decide how to chop
up a referral letter to fit it into a form: wouldn't it be better - and
safer - to box and import any standard data (demographics, contact numbers,
basic measurements & lab) which could be routinely imported and then have a
referral letter in one block?

Mary Hawking
Retired from NHS on 31.3.13 because of the Health and Social Care Act 2012
"thinking - independent thinking - is to humans as swimming is to cats: we
can do it if we really have to."  Mark Earles on Radio 4
blog http://maryhawking.wordpress.com/ , bloglist 
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4529244/MH%20blog%20list.doc And Fred! 
http://primaryhealthinfo.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/who-knows-what-and-why/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: GP-UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Russell Brown
Sent: 20 May 2013 20:18
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: health needs assessment on pt at request sservs

There is some interesting work going on in my CCG. Given the desire to
encourage the use of pathways and forms, the CCG is trying to come up
with a set of principles that service providers must adhere to before
the pathway involving that service provider gets approved.

Part of this is a minimum data set, mostly demographic information.
However, the intention is to build in a piloting structure with any
forms being designed for use with all the local clinical system before
practices area asked to use them.

Hopefully, all practices will have to do is what they do now: dictate
a letter.  The difference, if it all works, is simply that the admin
team will type the letter into the required form, which is
automagically populated with as much of the required info as possible.

They are also looking at a system I think called DXS to make it easy
for practices to use the form, indeed hopefully easier than NOT using
it.

I am contributing to discussions and am watching with interest. I have
frequently pointed out that a referral is valid if it is written on
the side of a cow provided it contains the information relevant to the
problem at hand. I have also been quick to try and ensure that
referrals are not returned if on the "wrong form".

Russell

Sent from a device of some kind

On 20 May 2013, at 20:08, Stephen Meech <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I agree with this. There is a plethora of forms mostly designed to save
> the recipients from doing the work themselves. There is nothing in our
> Terms of Service which says we need to use any of them and the sheer
> volume threatens patient safety as few are concise enough to be
> completed during a standard consultation.
>
> I tend to take them as guidance, when I can remember they exist, and
> send a traditional letter in which I endeavour to include the
> information helpful to the recipient.  If they insist in a form it gets
> completed "see attached letter and summary".  A few are helpful and if
> needed frequently we make them compatible with our clinical system for
> completion of demographic details at least.
>
> If the receiving organisation threatened to ignore my letter then I make
> it clear that is THEIR (individual or corporate) responsibility - I have
> discharged MY obligation.
>
> Through my LMC and as an individual practice we try to ensure that
> templates are kept to a minimum and are as helpful as possible to us and
> the patients.
>
> On 20/05/2013 07:38, Mary Hawking wrote:
>> Shortly before I retired, there were changes in referrals to SS and HVs
>> – without any consultation.
>>
>> SS demanded a form 10 pages long including such details as how many
>> people were needed to help with transfers, could person feed themselves,
>> toileting requirements etc. When my referral was refused because I
>> hadn’t filled it in, I had one of these full and frank discussions (“all
>> of the other GPs are doing it”: AFAIAA that was untrue) and it ended
>> with the person at the other end saying that the patient could refer
>> themselves – which this individual was happy to do.
>>
>> My partner tells me that, just after I had retired, he was presented
>> with the same form – and told that if he didn’t fill it in, the referral
>> would not be accepted. And no option of self-referral (makes you want a
>> list of who is allowed to refer to SS – and raises the question of what
>> happens to people in need who are not in contact with other agencies..)
>>
>> I believe it has gone to the LMC – but what price any future for joined
>> up working?
>>
>> In some ways the HV situation is even worse.
>>
>> GPs are no longer allowed to have a word with the HV about concerns over
>> a child or parent – even along the lines of ‘just needs a bit of extra
>> support’.
>>
>> In this brave new world of joined up care, the GP needs to fill in a
>> form which will go to the 0-18 team where a decission will be made on
>> who is best suited to deal with the problem.
>>
>> It’s just as bad for the midwives: there is a new computer system at the
>> local Trust, which requires a lot more information **at referral** - so
>> new form.
>>
>> For the last two, there doesn’t appear to have been any effort to
>> consult with the GPs: the information was given by the attached
>> HV/midwife at a routine primary health care team meeting.
>>
>> Is this happening everywhere, or is this a local Bedfordshire problem?
>
>> *From:*GP-UK [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On Behalf Of *Saul Galloway
>> *Sent:* 18 May 2013 20:34
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* health needs assessment on pt at request sservs
>>
>> What exactly is it ( I gather a bloody big form) and is it in my TOS to
>> do one?
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Stephen