medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: Bill Schipper <[log in to unmask]>
> Christopher,
> Christopher,
> I hope you were writing this with your digital tongue firmly in cheek,
not at all, BillBill.
but it was written in the hope that it might be read somewhat more carefully
than it may have been.
>but I still don't think that it's fair to compare LUP with the Edwin Mellen
Press.
i don't really think that i did make that comparison --at least not in a
particularly invidious sense:
"what are you guys trying to do?"
"out Mellen Mellen?"
i.e., LUP may be trying to be Mellenheads (or Mellenhead Wannabees) --with
their deliberate pricing themselves out of the non-institutional market-- but,
as i said, they still haven't lost their Amateur Standing, viz-a-viz the
MasterMellenhead.
mainly because, despite their price gouging, the quality of their publications
is considerably higher, as i noted:
"but, from Professor Lapidge's endorsement it looks like this might be a
decent bit of scholarship..."
i suppose i should not have said "might" there, since i'm sure that the
quality of the content of this item is quite high --if Michael Lapidge says
so, that's certainly good enough for the Likes of Me. (with no cheek tonguing
intended there, digital or otherwise.)
hence:
"you'll never catch up with Mellen if you keep publishing that [level of]
quality, no matter how outrageously you price your goods."
a self-evident observation, i should think; Mellen Rules those Waves.
> They are simply not in the same ballpark.
i agree entirely.
and perhaps their Mellenesque price gouging may be excused because it is
probably not caused by Greed, but by simple incompetence in the publishing
Game --and in the marketing Bean Counting going on in over-paid Front Office.
>Besides, OUP and CUP
o, god.
please don't get me started on *those* guys.
at least LUP has an excuse (or might have one).
the present Direction of the OxBridge publishers is a disgrace to an Ancient
and Honorable Tradition.
LUP is just a Kid --and children can be excused most anything (though you do
have to discipline them, from time to time).
>often have an even bigger gap between hard- and paperback prices of the same
book:
it's not the "gap" between hard and paper that i meant to point out, Bill,
it's that *both* prices are Outrageous.
$120 (U.S.) for a 343pp. book on which no royalties are owed to the
author/translator?
gimmea brake.
>I recently bought a copy
HB or PB?
>of the new [Burrow's] edition of Shakespeare's sonnets. OUP are asking
£142.00 for a hardback copy of The Complete Sonnets
awww, shucks, and just when i was thinking about buying a copy.
>and £8.99 for the paperback of the same (the hardback costs 15.78 times the
paperback; for the Bede Commentary the ratio is 3.95).
i won't quarrel with your Arithmetic, Bill --but do find, in Absolute terms,
the OUP's PB price of £8.99 to be rather nearer to a "reasonable" one (say,
there's that "99" again --suppose there's some Collusion going on?) compared
to the £18.99 of the LUP volume.
unless Mr. Shakespeare has written a bunch more poems since i last looked, or
the "new" edition has a *bunch* of critical material added to them (like, 300
pages worth), £142.00 --though a nice, round figure-- does seem a bit
excessive.
looks to me like the OUP Bean Counters' bidness model is: Gouge the
institutional buyers (who are, after all, spending other people's money) for
the HB, and yet give the peasants a decently priced PB --probably so that the
more Connected among them can have a copy of their very own to treasure, while
cajoling their institution's lieberrians to spring for the Gouge. (the
hapless lieberrians being caught in the middle --at least as long as their
budgets last.)
that being said, the Difference(s) between the OUP and, say, Mellen are clear:
in the former, Consistent Quality, both in terms of content and in terms of
physical product.
i assume (though i've never seen one) that the same goes for LUP's books as
well.
i know only a bit about the Nuts & Bolts of the publishing game, most of it
from reading about it and handling a few hundred thousand books in my dealing
career.
but my understanding is that once the book is....what used to be called
"composited" (i don't know what the term of art is now), a large part of the
really costly work is essentially done.
back in the Old Daze a fellow dealer (much more knowledgeable than i) told me
that modern printing houses "load logs in one end of a mile-long building and
boxed up books come out the other end).
he may have been exaggerating, i suppose.
but the Basic Idea is about right, i should think: the combination of
Technology and Economies of Scale *should* result in cheaper prices at the
consumer end --but, they don't.
even among the Mass Market publishers --whose $29.99 price for the latest
fiction Best Seller surely has nothing much to do with the actual cost of
production and, thus is perhaps more of a Gouge than even Mellen can pull
off.
> Faith Wallis (Professor at McGill University) is a superb Latinist, with
years of experience translating and writing about other works by Bede
(especially his works on computation). Michael Lapidge's endorsement will be
borne out by reviews, I'm sure.
as am i.
and did not mean to imply otherwise (nor do i believe that i did).
i just wish to hell i could afford to buy a copy of the thing (even though my
interest in the subject is rather marginal).
but, i can't.
maybe i'm not alone in this regard?
Questio, Listers: How many folks on this list --the membership of which,
admittedly, is heavily weighted in favor of folks pre-disposed to be at least
slightly interested in the subject of this book-- how many of you would
consider buying a copy at £75.00/£18.99? (what the Hell does "£18.**99**"
mean, anyway?)
now, how many would consider buying it at, say, the price of a mass market
hardback (say, £19)? (we needn't consider a mass market PB price, since that
is so market driven.)
"Bud, bud, we *caint* sell it *that* cheaply because it's not going to sell to
a mass market audience."
Crockett's Immutable Law: price your goods reasonably and there's a good
chance that you will sell more of them --making up for the difference between
the Gouge price and the Reasonable one by....(wait for it)...VOLUME. (plus,
you won't have to sue --or even bully-- folks who talk mean about your goods,
further enraging your target audience and ruining your reputation by shooting
yourself in the damned foot in such an embarrassing fashion.)
this is, after all, the Age of The Innernets --as Jenny Howard's post to this
Innernets list amply demonstrates. (btw, thanks for the post, Jenny.)
the market is, truly, WORLD WIDE (as in: Web).
not to mention putting out an eBook of the thing at, say $9.99 (U.S.) --how
many copies of *that* would sell i wonder, and at what actual cost of
production, at least as long as the cost of electrons stays as low as it is?
but, that's a story for another day, i suppose.
i've got to go now, and mail this letter.
c
> -----Original Message-----
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Christopher
> Crockett
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 9:06 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] TTH - Bede: Commentary on Revelation
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> From: "Howard, Jenny" <[log in to unmask]>
>
> > Liverpool University Press is delighted to announce the publication of
a new title on the renowned Translated Texts for Historians series:
>
> > Bede: Commentary on Revelation
>
> > HARDBACK ISBN: 9781846318443, Price: £75.00 PAPERBACK ISBN:
> > 9781846318450, Price: £18.99
>
> wow.
>
> only £75.00 ($120.00 U.S.) !
>
> and a paperback for a mere £18.99 !
>
> of course, i realize that the LUP had to pay the translator a lot of money
for her work (you *did* pay her, right?), but what are you guys trying to
do?
>
> out Mellen Mellen?
>
> but, from Professor Lapidge's endorsement it looks like this might be a
decent bit of scholarship --you'll never catch up with Mellen if you keep
publishing that quality, no matter how outrageously you price your goods.
>
> now let's here the Usual Excuse:
>
> "Well, we publish books that appeal to such a limited audience that we
> *have* to price them outrageously so that we will sell even fewer copies
> than we would if we sold twice as many at half the price."
>
> "And we'll hold on to the copyright for decades and decades after all the
> copies of the first run have sold out because otherwise....[?]"
>
> what next?
>
> "We'll sue you if you say anything critical about our Precious Press" ?
>
>
> *now* you're approaching full Mellenness.
>
> you will still have to lower the physical quality of your publications,
> however, before you loose your Amateur Standing in that league.
>
> c
>
> etc.
>
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