Do you really think geo-engineering of some sort will really be able to
reverse a lot of this?
I would hope so, but am a bit sceptical...
Elizabeth Cary
On Apr 22 2013, Veli Albert Kallio wrote:
> There are four sections in Greenland's perimeter that are facing the
> increasing stress from the warmed and wet ice sheet above the coastal
> barrier. The largest one of these is the Melville Bay's coastal perimeter
> (Image 1). The other ones are the Petermann Ice Fjord, the Independence
> Ice Fjord, and quite possibly, the Ilulissat Ice Fjord (although it is
> located in region that is generally becoming more buoyant with the bed
> rocks rising). The other fjord systems are not large enough to wear to
> the sea level however much water will stream through them. They simply
> fizzle themselves out (as the tongue of ice retreats onto the dry land).
>
> Greenland ice sheet is readily subsiding the bedrocks on Melville Bay -
> although still at extremely moderate rates (Image 2) which at present do
> not yet suggest immediate concerns of any major subsidence event. While
> Greenland is becoming more buoyant elsewhere, the water accumulation
> within ice on the north and north west Greenland is pressing the bed
> rocks down harder in these regions.
>
> The ice heft (height) is also impacted by Melville Bay's weak land
> containment barrier (Image 3) that allows more ice to escape on downhill
> flows with the rise of the ice sheet somewhat subdued where the perimeter
> barrier is minimal.
>
> The sea bed in front of Melville Bay has fractured bed rock structure
> with large silt-filled fissures opened in the past as the coastline bent
> and subsided (Image 4). In nearby areas - where the land isthmus between
> ice and sea is wide - the bed rocks on seabed appear smooth and unbroken.
>
> Unlike today's mild subsidence, Melville Bay has seen vast and sudden
> subsidence events in the past - as evidenced by the immense bed rock
> fissures and associates turbidic rock falls on the sea slope (Image 5).
>
> The few fractured rocks that jut out of ice in Melville Bay seem to have
> stresses from the moving ice and subsidence that is thrusting these
> obstacles towards the ocean - with fissures opening on the rocks seen on
> aerial photographs (Image 6). This section, if it failed in massive
> Storegga-style rock fall, can trigger massive tsunamis that hit the
> Baffin Island's east coast communities.
>
> Namely, a similar plug structure once held back the Foxe-Laurentide Ice
> Dome on the Hudson Strait between the southern tip of Baffin Island and
> the northern tip of Newfoundland (Image 7). According to Wally Broecker,
> when this plug failed, it resulted Heindrich Zero [H0] ice berg calving
> event as the wet ice sheet remainders cascaded into the ocean from the
> Hudson Bay (Image 8).
>
> Vast ice berg grounding marks are today found from deep sea floor
> opposite to the Hudson Strait off South West Greenland coast at 1200
> metres below sea level which were produced by large ice islands. I
> suggest that this resulted in a sudden generic sea level jump and the
> instant Younger Dryas cooling (see the article: Image 9).
>
> In post-sea ice Arctic Ocean (ice-free oceans around Greenland), a
> metamorphosis of Greenland Ice Sheet occurs from the cold, dry, stable
> and moraine-forming ice sheet into the warm, wet, dynamic and
> aggregate-forming ice sheet can potentially unleash similar collapse,
> Heindrich Minus One (H-1) event with subsequent Last Dryas severe cooling
> as the ocean basin between America and Europe once again fills with the
> discharged ice debris from Greenland a "Day After Tomorrow" style. (Image
> 10).
>
> The H-1 / Last Dryas Greenland Ice Sheet destabilisation event will
> represent the last sea ice recovery and ocean desalination epoch in the
> Northern Hemisphere although Ronald Emmerlich poorly assigned the cause
> in his global warming film. Despite of the cold, I would suggest this as
> the last opportunity to reverse the underlying climatic warming by
> furthering "mini ice age" by climate geoengineering. The reason being
> that in post sea ice Arctic will have high methane levels, sea level jump
> removing the global dimming effect of sulphur dioxide and other
> pollutants from industrial sources as world's maritime trade goes
> disarray. We have advocated the above case history since the first Rio de
> Janeiro summit in 1992 as the correct case history for the demise of the
> Foxe-Laurentide Ice Dome remainders from the Hudson Bay area when the
> last ice ages came to their ultimate end. In particular it is
> disappointing as we have a list of 28 rock formations (sites) we think
> are in process of heading towards the above said scenario.
>
> We should see a further rises in ice quakes in Greenland growing
> exponentially over the next few years as the metamorphosis from the cold
> and dry ice to warm and wet ice occurs. The base of Greenland ice sheet
> converts into a water-clogged honeycombed ice that lacks the internal
> strength to withstand the pressures from the overlying cold and dry ice
> layers that sit above the slushy base. As the base destabilises the ice
> sheet above breaks into large ice blocks that then fall into ocean as ice
> islands during Heindrich event. The ice sheet thrust occurs against
> perimeter with rapid erosion forces (cavitation, plucking and kolking)
> aiding its demise. I have suggested, that if Melville Coast becomes a
> future mouth of sea inlet, similar to the mouth of Hudson Strait (Images
> 1, 7 & 8), that this would be called the Banyacya Strait as per the First
> Nations of Americas who put their idea of rapid ice sheet end to the UN
> General Assembly back in 1992 citing their ancient recollections of the
> events that had occurred in their distant collective memory.
>
>> Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 13:07:06 +0100
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Mega-tsunami in N Atlantic and denial of life-threats
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Very interesting, Aaron. Only problem is, as fast as one might re-freeze
>> the Arctic, GHGs would soon get to work again...what do you think?
>>
>> Elizabeth
>>
>> On Apr 20 2013, Aaron Franklin wrote:
>>
>> >Yes it is possible to refreeze the arctic. All we need is a few hundred
>> >ships and a few thousand fire pumps
>> >On Saturday, April 20, 2013, E.M. Cary <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >> Is it really possible, now, to re-freeze the Arctic?
>> >>
>> >> Elizabeth Cary
>> >>
>> >> On Apr 19 2013, John Nissen wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Yes, Peter, I should have mentioned the risk from submarine slide in
>> >> the
>> >Arctic, as one of these caused a mega-tsunami (~20 metres) on the east
>> >coast of Scotland, about 8000 years ago [1].
>> >>
>> >> Such a tsunami is one of the greatest concerns of scientists working
>> >> on
>> >Arctic methane.
>> >>
>> >> Obviously there is a risk of triggering a submarine slide from
>> >> drilling
>> > for methane hydrate. However the denial of the Arctic climate
>> > emergency is nothing to do with that. It's not a commercial, cynical
>> > denial. It's to do with other processes in the Arctic and the
>> > life-threatening implications for all of us. It's to do with the
>> > vicious cycle of warming and melting of snow and sea ice, with
>> > dramatic loss of their reflective cooling effect, which threatens (i)
>> > abrupt climate change through weather extremes, (ii) multi-metre sea
>> > level rise, (iii) global warming catastrophe - with or without the
>> > methane. It's too big for most people to handle, so they suppress the
>> > thoughts.
>> >>
>> >> This is a tragedy in the making, since the window of opportunity for
>> > action to cool the Arctic and refreeze the ice is closing rapidly.
>> > This golden opportunity for international collaboration with a common
>> > goal of survival is being ignored, even by the top advisers to
>> > government and people like Jim Hansen.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> John
>> >>
>> >> [1]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsunamis_affecting_the_British_Isles#Scotland_tsunami.2C_6100_BC
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> On 19/04/2013 17:29, PR CARTER wrote:
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "PR CARTER"<[log in to unmask]>
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 9:10:36 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: Mega-tsunami in N Atlantic and denial of life-threats
>> >>
>> >> Hi John there is a documemted methane hydrate Europ tsunami risk.
>> >>
>> >> Practically all world govts large and small are invested in mining
>> >methane hydrate for natural gas as the next big fossil fuel bonanza.
>> >>
>> >> The universal govt denial of the Arctic climate planetary emergency is
>> >largely because of the methane hydrate development agenda.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Peter C
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "John Nissen"<[log in to unmask]>
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 8:30:15 AM
>> >> Subject: Mega-tsunami in N Atlantic and denial of life-threats
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> Did anybody watch the programme last night on BBC2? I watched it
>> >> today online. The mega-tsunami would be so large that nothing could
>> >> prevent the loss of a vast number of lives.
>> >>
>> >> It only mentioned one source of tsunami, from the Canary Islands,
>> >> but there's also a source from the Greenland Ice Sheet, if a chunk of
>> >> that slid into the sea. Potentially, it could produce a tsunami of
>> >> one or two orders of magnitude larger! There is geological evidence
>> >> that chunks of ice sheet/dome have slid off in the past, creating
>> >> giant icebergs which crossed the North Atlantic, depositing material
>> >> as far as the coast of France.
>> >>
>> >> The threat to the UK was rediculously underplayed, with Brighton and
>> >> Bournemouth being the only towns specifically mentioned for damage,
>> >> and London assumed to be safe. The Bristol Channel would funnel the
>> >> tsunami, producing much more damage than the tsunami that occurred
>> >> there a few centuries ago. The nuclear reactor sites in the channel
>> >> (about 7 of them) have never been considered for defence against a
>> >> mega-tsunami.
>> >>
>> >> One interesting point from the US was that, if there were an advance
>> > warning, half the population would go into denial and not take any
>> > notice.
>> >>
>> >> This is the same denial as we are seeing from global warming - and
>> >> more specifically from Arctic warming. We have had wake-up calls for
>> >> action, as the sea ice retreated dramatically to a record minimum in
>> >> 2007 and with another downward plunge last year, and on course for
>> >> near zero sea ice in September 2015. With the loss of sea ice causing
>> >> warming of the Arctic far above the global average, the jet stream
>> >> behaviour is disrupted and we are experiencing weather extremes that
>> >> can only get worse [1]. This is climate change writ large. Yet the
>> >> government and government advisers are in denial. No action is
>> >> proposed which could possibly have a significant effect on the
>> >> necessary timescale to remediate the situation - and adaptation is
>> >> absurd - as it is for a mega-tsunami!
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> John
>> >>
>> >> [1] ht
>> >
>
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