JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for PHD-DESIGN Archives


PHD-DESIGN Archives

PHD-DESIGN Archives


PHD-DESIGN@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

PHD-DESIGN Home

PHD-DESIGN Home

PHD-DESIGN  March 2013

PHD-DESIGN March 2013

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: what kind of list is this?

From:

CAMERON TONKINWISE <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 15 Mar 2013 10:57:28 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (78 lines)

This is directed at Derek and concerns the culture of this list.

Why was it necessary to make this post?

Cameron



sent while distractedly mobile

On Mar 15, 2013, at 10:42 AM, "Derek B. Miller" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I'm too busy to reply to this now, and I'm not going to pretend it wasn't directed towards my long post. So hopefully I can return to this over the weekend. 
> 
> And I will.
> 
> Derek
> _________________
> Derek B. Miller
> Boston and Oslo
> Int'l phone: +1 617 440 4409
> email: [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 15, 2013, at 2:26 PM, Birger Sevaldson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks to Tim for questioning the content of the list. I truly regret him leaving.
>> I think he is right it is not a design list in the sense of describing design as a field based on "form-giving" where a minimum level of knowledge and practice of e.g. drawing is a common foundation for all discussions.
>> 
>> The community on this list is composed of designers with the insight into drawing and form-giving and non-designers without this insight. All of the latter i assume have an honest interest in design as a wider field or as a subject for study looking at it with the goggles of other disciplines. But they are very often lacking the sensibility about the limits of their own perspective and knowledge and they often  write with an arrogance that is provoking, as Tim pointed out. To be just, many of the non-designers are honestly trying to understand design. But for the rest it is very hard to understand what aspect of design and design knowledge they appreciate. Everything seems to be wrong so why staying in the field or on this list? Is it for the ego-boosting reasons Tim mentioned? The lack of insight into design is becoming an increasing problem and it needs to be addressed with a little bit of humility and will to learn.
>> 
>> At the same time we often have experienced that the very same people do not follow them-selves the standard of argumentation and reasoning which they impose on others, first issue is to know the field of design. 
>> And yes i am generalizing and i allow my self to do so especially because we repeatedly are confronted with negative generalizations from that side.
>> 
>> Off course drawing can be research in a similar way as writing can be research. Not all drawing is research but there is a long term and tight relation between drawing and research and some of the drawing is an integrated part of research that is research in its own right. Claiming something else is ignorant and it is disturbing that we need to have these discussions over and over again on a design list. 
>> Another issue is that it is maybe thinkable that a drawing can stand alone without text but it is unlikely, at least very rare. These intimate relations between the visual and the textual have been talked about before here.
>> There is a long historic line of drawing as research. How would you imagine the development of the perspective or color theories or the whole bases of information visualization and scientific visualization without it? What about the issue of observation through drawing? What about the technological developments? What about issues of perception? Are they imaginable without drawing? Maybe, but drawing has played a central and multi faceted role of knowledge production in these fields. I would also argue that artistic drawing is potentially knowledge or interpretation related. I have not investigated this especially so i wont say more about it.
>> 
>> Unless one has a very fixed and old fashioned conception of research as knowledge production and one has no knowledge about drawing it is obvious that drawing can be research in its own right.
>> 
>> This is not an unimportant debate but it is central to what the list should be about, namely a design research list, which it may be aspires to be but it is constantly side tracked.
>> 
>> This list has developed into a weird corner with many lurkers as me with the same frustrations as Tim. I know many design researchers who for long time have left because it seems irrelevant to them. While design research is moving FFW the list is convoluted in its weird labyrints.....
>> 
>> I still think its worth staying here. Hope Tim comes back.
>> 
>> Birger Sevaldson (PhD, MNIL)
>> Professor at Institute of Design
>> Oslo School of Architecture and Design
>> Norway
>> www.birger-sevaldson.no
>> www.systemsorienteddesign.net
>> www.ocean-designresearch.net
>> 
>> 
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> PhD-Design mailing list  <[log in to unmask]>
>> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design
>> Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> PhD-Design mailing list  <[log in to unmask]>
> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design
> Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design
> -----------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------------------------------------------------------
PhD-Design mailing list  <[log in to unmask]>
Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design
Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager