Hi Jane (and everyone)
I would keep to a very simple definition of a primary source - which is
that they are contemporary with the events that they provide evidence
about. Therefore a single source can be a primary source material for
one event and secondary source material for a different event. The
definition is relative (date of writing relative to date of evidence
sought).
So an account (whether in an archive or newspaper or other) of the
politics of the 1832 Reform Act written in 1832 is a primary source for
the 1832 Reform Act. A similar account written in 1867 is not a
primary source for the 1832 Reform Act, but might be used as a primary
source for the 1867 Reform Act (how did opinions about one affect views
on the other?) This is the same as your 'Eminent Victorians' example
below.
Archives (within the narrow definition of papers of administration etc)
are a sub-set of primary sources. You can then talk about the essential
characteristics of archives and how they differ from other primary
sources - this is an important distinction for MA students -
particularly those going on to study for a PhD.
And I would write your guide with your specific audience in mind (ie, in
this case MA students) - and leave someone else to write a guide for
family historians and others.
Best wishes
Judy
Judy Burg
University Archivist
Hull History Centre
Worship Street
Hull
HU2 8BG
T: (01482) 317502
[log in to unmask]
www.hullhistorycentre.org.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Archivists, conservators and records managers.
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jane Stevenson
Sent: 14 February 2013 15:03
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Defining primary and secondary sources
Hi Sue,
I take your points, but I'm asking this question simply because it is a
question students will ask. As long as we talk about primary and
secondary sources, which many people do, then it is a valid question.
Whether or not we should be framing things in this way is a whole
different question - and probably not one for a fairly simple guide to
help people get started with using archives. I just thought I could do a
bit to point students in the right direction and clear up any confusions
they have about archives.
I don't think anyone would wish to sideline the genealogy community in
any way, but I was specifically interested in advice that could be give
to students, typically MA or undergrad students, which is why I framed
my original question in the way I did. I thought that there were quite a
few good guides for those undertaking family history, but it is not so
easy to find guides aimed at those undertaking dissertations who have
not used archives before.
> Everything in the discussion about students applies to genealogists as
well, so can I make a plea not to ignore them?
I'm not sure that I agree with this, as a research question is a
different thing from a focused exploration of your own family history.
There are things in common, but I think there are differences. Still,
I'm not an expert here - which is why it is useful to get the feedback
from the community.
cheers,
Jane.
On 14 Feb 2013, at 14:49, Sue Adams <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Hi Jane
>
> You would do well to look at how the genealogy and family history
community deals with evaluating archival and published materials.
Defining sources and primary and secondary is an inadequate tool for
proper evaluation for genealogical purposes and is now outdated.
American genealogists are way ahead with their models for the analysis
of evidence. They categorise sources as original or derivative,
information contained in the source as primary for secondary, and
evidence for each assertion made as direct or indirect. There is a
succinct explanation at
http://www.bcgcertification.org/skillbuilders/skbld085.html . This
evaluation provides the building blocks for developing conclusions that
can be defended using the Genealogical Proof Standard (GPS).
>
> Elizabeth Shown Mills and Tom Jones, two very prominent proponents of
the GPS, are influential educators in the US.
>
> As a 2012 graduate from Strathclyde University's MSc in Genealogical,
Palaeographic and Heraldic Studies, I read the thread on "MA Students
using archives for the first time" with interest, but also with a sense
of exasperation. Genealogists and family historians were mentioned only
in passing with one person's comment "many people assume that archives
is family history, genealogy or ancient manuscripts". As a
non-archivist, I have long thought that genealogists and family
historians form the majority of archive users. Am I completely wrong?!
Everything in the discussion about students applies to genealogists as
well, so can I make a plea not to ignore them?
> Sue Adams
> Family Folk
> Blog:
> http://familyfolklore.wordpress.com/
> On 14/02/2013 11:47, Jane Stevenson wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Following the flurry of emails about starting to use archives, i'm
attempting to bring together advice in a guide to archives for the
inexperienced.
>>
>> But, as is the way so often, once you really start to try to pin
things down you raise more questions!
>>
>> I want a short definition of the difference between primary and
secondary sources, and I came across this from Yale:
>>
>>
>>> Determining what is a primary source can be tricky, and in no case
is this more apparent than with books and pamphlets. From one vantage
point, books are the quintessential secondary source: scholars use
primary source materials such as letters and diaries to write books,
which are in turn secondary sources. However, books can also be a rich
source of primary source material. In some instances, as in the case of
published memoirs, autobiographies, and published documents, it is easy
to determine when a book functions as a primary source.
>>>
>>> But even secondary source materials can function as primary sources.
Take, for instance, Lytton Strachey's famous history of nineteenth
century England, Eminent Victorians, first published in 1918. On one
hand, Eminent Victorians is a secondary source, a history of English
society and culture in the 1800s based on Strachey's research and
analysis of primary sources. On the other hand, a present-day scholar
could treat Eminent Victorians itself as a primary source, using it to
to analyze the mores and attitudes of Lytton Strachey and the early
twentieth century English intelligentsia of which he was a part.
>>>
>> Are we generally agreed that books can be primary sources, if you use
them as direct evidence about the author and the context of the time in
which it was written?
>>
>> This is what I've drafted so far:
>>
>> What are primary sources and what are secondary sources?
>> Primary sources are contemporary with the time that they are written
>> in. Letters, diaries, minutes of meetings and account books are good
examples of primary sources Secondary sources are published sources that
are consciously about a topic, and they will often use primary sources
in order to make observations and conclusions. Typical secondary sources
include articles and books.
>> You can think of secondary sources as having the benefit of
hindsight, wheras primary sources were created by the people involved,
at the time being studied, so they can provide direct evidence of an
event. This is why they are considered to be essential for historical
research.
>> It is worth remembering that the terms 'primary' and 'secondary' are
not clear cut. It may depend what you are using the source for. A
published article can be read as a primary source that reveals something
about how a topic was reported at that time.
>>
>> I added the last bit after reading a few definitions such as the Yale
piece, but I don't know now whether to state that books and periodicals
are secondary sources....I don't want it to get too complicated!
>>
>> It would be helpful to reply to list please - and I think a
discussion might be helpful.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Jane
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jane Stevenson
>> The Archives Hub
>> Mimas, The University of Manchester
>> Devonshire House, Oxford Road
>> Manchester M13 9QH
>>
>>
>> email:[log in to unmask]
>>
>> tel: 0161 275 6055
>> website: archiveshub.ac.uk
>> blog: archiveshub.ac.uk/blog
>> twitter: twitter.com/archiveshub
>>
>> Contact the list owner for assistance at
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