Jan. 26
Dear Nick,
Many thanks for your fast reply.
Obviously, I agree with you.
I know well Christian polemics against Greco-Roman pagans and vice versa. I wonder what our experts, whose academic credentials are obscure, think of Justin Martyr, who was beheaded by Rome for his polemics against pagan philosophers.
It does not take a specialist to be aware of divisions within the "European" realm. Since, as you note, "Abrahamic" includes Islam, what do our authorities make of the Crusades? An intra-mural squabble? What do they make of religious persecutions throughout the history of "Europe"? What of the conflict between religion and science? What of philosophical conflicts--for example, between materialism and idealism?
Yes, the list could be most useful if it were scholarly. I especially like the publicizing of publications and of conferences that might otherwise pass me by. And subscribers who ask for references or other guides--this is what the list should be doing.
Best,
Robert
________________________________________
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nicholas Campion [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:51 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Can non-europeans think (link)
Hi Robert,
I am glad you have suggested that notions that all 'Europeans' are the same,
and that their world views are not only monolithic but inferior, is as
deeply racist as saying the same as about 'Africans'.
I would also add that to say that modern neo-Pagans are seeing an
alternative to 'Abrahamic' and 'Greco-Roman' worldviews not only shows a
deep unfamiliarity with modern neo-Paganism, as well as an anti-scholarly
tendency to generalize but, in the rejection of 'Abrahamic' word view could
raise allegations both of 'Islamaphobia' and 'Anti-Semitism', both Islam and
Judaism being Abrahamic. We already know about the dangerous seepage between
paganism and fascism at one political extreme.
My point being, on this list can we focus more scholarship, foe which I find
the list very useful, and avoid the slogans and rhetoric?
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Segal, Professor
Robert A.
Sent: 26 January 2013 11:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Can non-europeans think (link)
Jan. 26
Dear Nick,
I was going to make the same point. And I was going to add that, contrary
to the racism of those who see all "Europeans" as automatically identical in
their beliefs, anyone who knows even the most rudimentary thing about
Western culture is aware of divisions within it. Hebrews versus "pagans"
in ancient times. Hebrews versus Greeks and Romans. Christians versus
Jews. Christians versus pagans. Christians versus one another. Scores
of divisions within Judaism and Christianity over the relationship of these
religions to secular, scientific culture.
Have our experts ever read Matthew Arnold on Hebraic versus Hellenic
culture?
Have they ever heard of Indo-European versus Semitic culture?
But hey, what's the point? This self-congratulatory list is ever more a
waste of time--with some happy exceptions like your posts.
Best,
Robert (proudly Western)
________________________________________
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
[[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nicholas Campion
[[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 11:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Can non-europeans think (link)
Hi,
Historical corrections.
Abrahamic Is ancient near-eastern, not European ethnocentric
Greco-Roman was pagan, hence not dismissive of pagan ideas.
Nick
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of mandrake
Sent: 26 January 2013 09:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Can non-europeans think (link)
N.W. Azal wrote:
I'd like to see the dabashi article on franz fanon -
Modern neo-pagans also find themselves looking for an ethical framework that
avoids the Abrahamic and Greco-Roman
world view (ie european ethnocentrism) which is so dismissive of pagan
ideas.
The pagan often find themselves sceptical about the
utility of the restrictive law codes built into modern society.
Malana Karenga's books has a preface from Jan Assmann,
one of the most eminent of living egyptologists and interpreters.
Hope your research and writing going well
senebty
mogg morgan
Other than his The Arab
Spring<http://www.amazon.com/Arab-Spring-End-Postcolonialism/dp/1780322240/r
ef=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1359193227&sr=1-1> (which is the only piece of
his I totally disagree with) and The World of Persian Literary
Humanism<http://www.amazon.com/The-World-Persian-Literary-Humanism/dp/067406
6715>, which came out just before xmas, I have all of Dabashi's material as
pdfs as well. You are welcome to any of them, Mogg.
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 10:37 AM, mandrake
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Dear N.W. Azal et al
Must have missed that last time - i spotted it on Al Jazeera site along with
his other
cultureal reviews of latest films - Zero Dark 30 etc
btw my article in Pomegranate -
https://www.equinoxpub.com/journals/index.php/POM/issue/current
discusses
Maulana Karenga and his use of the Ancient Egyptian Maatian "law codes" as
basis for a non
european ethical system - shows some common ground between Pagans and "Black
Consciousenss Movement" -
Its an interest of my - pagan ethics -
he is an egyptologist / philosopher whose book on Ma'at is really important
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulana_Karenga
senebty
Mogg Morgan
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulana_Karenga
A very good article indeed. I posted this here last week.
You should check out some of Dabashi's other works as well, esp. his
re-write of Franz Fanon.
On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 8:00 PM, mandrake
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Dear all
Interesting article here on european enthocentrism -
Can non-Europeans
think?<http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/01/2013114142638797542.
html>
( http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/01/2013114142638797542.html
)
mogg
The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683.
The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683.
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