JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION  November 2012

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION November 2012

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: ius patronatus transfers

From:

John Shinners <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:38:41 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (89 lines)

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

It’s been 30 years since I knew what I was talking about concerning the legalities of English benefices, and that wasn’t all that much to begin with, but this sounds like some sort of church permutation(see below) and possibly the shady practice of the “chop-church,” a broker--I’m assuming here the priest of St. Mary’s--overseeing the swapping of benefices (according to Rodes, “Ecclesiastical Administration on Medieval England,” pp. 118-19).

Is the £200 perhaps the difference between the value of St. Mary’s and St. Andrews, cloaked under the excuse of “remission of sins”?

But I’m really guessing here.

Best, 
John


PERMUTATION. In the canon law, a real and actual exchange of two benefices. Permutation is a means of bringing benefices into commerce without simony.
     The conditions required to a canonical permutation are—1. That there be benefices permuted on either side, though the revenues be unequal, and in case of inequality no compensation to be made in money, but only a pension charged on the bigger. 2. That each of the permutants quit his benefice, and make a procuration ad resignandum. 3. That the permutation be followed by a collation of the ordinary. 4. That the ordinary be informed of the cause of the permutation. 5. That those to whom the presentation or election to the benefices belongs give their consent, or, in case of their refusal, that the consent of the diocesan be had.
     The chief rules of permutation are, that if one of the compermutants cannot enjoy, he re-enters with full right into the benefice he has quitted; and that if he die ere he have accomplished the permutation on his part by the taking of possession, the compermutant who has accomplished retains both benefices, unless they fall into the regale. (T. Moore, “Dictionary of the English Church, ancient and modern [1881], from Google Books)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Laura Jacobus" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 10:38:15 AM
Subject: [M-R] ius patronatus transfers

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture I'm working on what 's seems to be a strange set of linked transactions which I'm hoping members of this list can help explain. In essence it's a three-way exchange of ius patronatus coupled with a donation, all of which took place with all parties present on the same day, two of which were explicitly 'in remission of sins'.  


1)  Dives is patron of St. Mary's, (an important church) and patron of St. Andrew's (probably a small country church). He donates the ius patronatus of St. Andrew's to St. Mary's, stating that he does this in remission of sins. 


2) The priest of St. Mary's promptly swaps the ius patronatus of St. Andrew's for the ius patronatus of St. Thomas's, which is owned by a monastery.  They say that this is done for their mutual convenience, which make sense as St. Thomas's is near St. Mary's and St. Andrew's is near the monastery. 


3) Dives donates £200 to the monastery, with the condition that the monastery spends it within one month on a house for the brothers when they visit town.  Dives states that this too is in remission of sins. 


4) It transpires that nearly 40 years later this £200 had yet to be paid!  In his will, Dives refers to his promise of £200 for a house, which he says was linked to the exchange of ius patronatus, and finally leaves the monastery the money. 


My first question is why did Dives not simply donate the £200 and the ius patronatus of St. Andrew's directly to the monastery and cut out the middleman (St. Mary's) so to speak? I'm guessing that the ius patronatus of St. Andrew's  is of lesser value than St. Thomas's, to the tune of £200, and that the donation of £200 makes up the difference in value.  St. Mary's is effectively 'in his pocket' so in the end Dives has got the ius patronatus of St. Thomas via his ownership of the ius patronatus of St. Mary's.  But presumably to do a direct transaction would be open to charges of simony, hence he splits it up into a £200 gift and a 'hands off' swap between the two churches.  Does that sound right? 


My second question is how can all this count as 'remission of sins'?  Or, put another way, is this all an accounting exercise to enable Dives to get what he wants while avoiding simony and writing off some sins into the bargain- a sort of spiritual money-laundering?  Even ignoring the fact that he kept the £200, the net result of this seems to be that Dives ended up as the patron of two valuable livings, whilst on paper it looks as if he's derived no benefit from his two 'donations'. 


As you can tell, I'm inclined to take a cynical view, but it's not my sort of thing (I'm an art historian) and I may have got this completely wrong.  Views welcome! 




Laura 







-- 
Dr. Laura Jacobus 
Senior Lecturer in History of Art 
Birkbeck College, University of London 


For details of my book on Giotto and the Arena Chapel see  http://www.brepols.net/Pages/ShowProduct.aspx?prod_id=IS-9781905375127-1 
********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html 

-- 
John Shinners 
Professor, Schlesinger Chair in Humanistic Studies 
Saint Mary's College 
Notre Dame, Indiana 46556 
Phone: 574-284-4494 or 574-284-4534 
Fax: 284-4855 
www.saintmarys.edu/~hust 

"Learn everything.  Later you will see that nothing is superfluous."     -- Hugh of St. Victor (d. 1141)

**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager