JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for JISC-SHIBBOLETH Archives


JISC-SHIBBOLETH Archives

JISC-SHIBBOLETH Archives


JISC-SHIBBOLETH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

JISC-SHIBBOLETH Home

JISC-SHIBBOLETH Home

JISC-SHIBBOLETH  October 2012

JISC-SHIBBOLETH October 2012

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Resilient Shib IdPs

From:

David Perry <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Discussion list for Shibboleth developments <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 4 Oct 2012 11:35:14 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (172 lines)

Slightly off topic but still kinda relevant...

We have our resilience in other ways. We have one IdP yes, but it's a
virtual one. And IT built a second server room on the same VM
infrastructure, so if the main one got blown up there is a full mirror
in a separate building with a road in the way. Plus there are regular
backups.

Our first Shib2 deployment (2.1.5) was a bit unstable but since we
moved to 2.3.2 it's been good. 2.3.8 is a happy IdP.


Dave

David Perry
eContent Developer, eLearning Team (L34 - Library)
Hull College
Wilberforce Drive, Queen's Gardens, Hull
HU1 3DG
Extension 2230 / Direct Dial: 01482 381930





* * * Think about the environment - Do you really need to print this
email?>>> Mark Cairney <[log in to unmask]> 04/10/2012 11:00 >>>
Hi,

I've got my 2 Shib IdPs running behind a Citrix Netscaler with
Terracotta. I initially had some teething problems with getting this
working with Terracotta but it now seems to be running fairly happily
(touch wood).

There was also a bit of a black art involved in setting up sufficient
health checks on the Loadbalancer side of things to ensure that broken
IdPs are removed from service and that working IdP servers aren't
removed erroneously!

Terracotta can be a bit of a headache but when it's working it works
pretty well. Most (all?) of our Terracotta outages have occurred when
the communication between the servers is interrupted for a period of
time and they both go into Active mode and stay there when communication
resumes, causing a split-brain situation. We've worked around this to a
certain extent by some tweaking of the various timeout values in
Terracotta but as it's a quorum issue the best solution would be to
simply have an odd number of terracotta servers.


On 4 Oct 2012, at 10:44, Andy Swiffin wrote:

> Hi
> 
> Unfortunately those are the kind of solutions that are really
"deprecated" in todays environment, at least here at Dundee.   The
thrust is to keep things as pure and vanilla as possible.   I'd had a
browse back in the Shib users list which is where I'd gleaned a lot of
anti Terracotta bias and also seen
Scottshttps://wiki.shibboleth.net/confluence/display/SHIB2/IdPStatelessClustering
 (although I don't seem to be able to unzip the actual login handler
from contributions).
> 
> Shib 2 is SO reliable that the chance of an unscheduled failover is
very rare.   I'm not therefore worried about people having to
reauthenticate on failover.   I just want a hardware box (two actually!)
to do the hot standy redirection.
> 
> Cheers
> Andy
> 
> 
> From: Discussion list for Shibboleth developments
[[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Rod Widdowson
[[log in to unmask]] 
> Sent: 04 October 2012 10:19
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: Re: Resilient Shib IdPs
> 
> Andy,
>  
> There’s a lot of experience over in the Shib-users list, and you
might to ask there and also consult
thehttps://wiki.shibboleth.net/confluence/display/SHIB2/Contributions
page.
>  
> Two to look out for are Scott Cantor’s “Ohio State extensions,
primarily a custom login module for SSO with stateless clustering, and
workflow-like login handler with Velocity-based UI and post-login
notification hooks” and Paul Hethmon’s “A replacement storage
service for Shibboleth IdP v2 that uses Infinispan to provide cluster
support.”
>  
> Rod
>  
> From: Discussion list for Shibboleth developments
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Andy Swiffin
> Sent: 04 October 2012 05:04
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: Resilient Shib IdPs
>  
> Hi
> 
> I'm currently putting together plans to update our IdP infrastructure
and want to add in automatic failover.   We currently have a manual
failover to a secondary IdP, should it ever be needed (which since the
move to Shib 2 many many moons ago it hasn't!).   However I would like
to push Shib authentication for some high profile services and without
having a demonstrable auto failover mechanism this won't be well
received.
> 
> Because Shibboleth is stateful, if you are going to loadbalance
cluster it you need a mechanism for sharing state information, the
shibboleth documentation says:  "By default the Shibboleth team
recommends the use of Terracotta as the mechanism for doing this"  which
is a shame because I have it on high authority that "I think you'd be
insane to consider it."....    I know a lot of people have found
Terracotta to have, itself, caused shib outages.
> 
> Without state sharing you need to go for a hot standby rather than
loadbalanced approach, but unfortunately our existing Cisco content
switch (which is well overdue for replacement) cannot do this.    
> 
> So,  I'd be interested to hear from anyone who is doing hot standby
with their Shibboleth IdP  (i.e. if IdP1 is responding always use it, if
it fails the test switch to IdP2)  and what type of hardware
loadbalancer you're using at the front to do this.
> 
> Cheers
> Andy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish Charity, No:
SC015096
> 
> The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish Charity, No:
SC015096

/****************************

Mark R Cairney
ITI UNIX Section
Information Services

Tel: 0131 650 6565
Email: [log in to unmask] 

****************************/


-- 
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.

**********************************************************************
This message is sent in confidence for the addressee
only. It may  contain confidential or sensitive
information.  The contents are not to be disclosed
to anyone other than the addressee.  Unauthorised
recipients are requested to preserve this
confidentiality and to advise us of any errors in
transmission.  Any views expressed in this message
are solely the views of the individual and do not
represent the views of the College.  Nothing in this
message should be construed as creating a contract.

Hull College owns the email infrastructure, including the contents.

Hull College is committed to sustainability, please reflect before printing this email.
**********************************************************************

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
June 2019
May 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
November 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
January 2018
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
September 2015
August 2015
June 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager