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CIG-E-FORUM  October 2012

CIG-E-FORUM October 2012

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Subject:

Re: Discussion of record 4

From:

Anne Welsh <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Anne Welsh <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:45:44 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (366 lines)

I don't know. I'm confused.

I find this particularly unhelpful, from 19.2.1.1

"A person, family, or corporate body responsible for compiling an
aggregate work may be considered to be a creator of the compilation if the
selection, arrangement, editing, etc., of content for the compilation
effectively results in the creation of a new work."

And by FRBR. If the editor(s) is/are responsible for the creation of a
work, are they creators?

Or is it, as it was in AACR2, that editors can only be contributors?

Help!

Anne










On 24/10/2012 14:34, "Slough, Nick" <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>I see that it can be difficult to tell how involved the "editors" have
>been
>with the creation of the intellectual content of a resource, but would the
>editors of a volume of essays not usually fit this description
>
>"editor of compilation A person, family, or corporate body contributing to
>an expression of a collective or aggregate work by selecting and putting
>together works, or parts of works, by one or more creators. The editor of
>compilation may also be involved in elucidating the content, e.g., adding
>an
>introduction, notes, or other critical matter, of the compilation"
>
>And so be contributors with the relationship designator "editor of
>compilation"?
>
>
>
>Nick Slough
>Assistant Librarian
>Bibliographical Services Section
>City of London Libraries, Archives and Guildhall Art Gallery
>Guildhall Library
>Aldermanbury
>London EC2V 7HH
>Tel: 020 7332 1093
>Email: [log in to unmask]
>www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/libraries
>
>Follow us on Twitter
>Read our blog
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Helen
>Williams
>Sent: 24 October 2012 14:20
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] Discussion of record 4
>
>Agreed - Very very tricky
>
>Anne, what you are saying about the editors having more responsibility
>than
>simply arranging work, makes me veer back to wondering whether they should
>be creators, where as before lunch I was veering towards editors as
>contributors!
>Lack of sufficient information to make correct judgements could be a real
>problem.  And I can see different institutions making different judgements
>quite easily on this kind of issue.
>
>Gordon, in your role as JSC rep, is this the kind of issue you could ask
>for more clarification on, or is it really down to interpretation?
>
>Helen
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Anne
>Welsh
>Sent: 24 October 2012 13:42
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] Discussion of record 4
>
>I think this is an interesting point. It can be difficult to know the
>level
>of contribution someone makes from the statement on the title page.
>
>Many editors in books of the kind Facet publishes are responsible for far
>more than arranging others' work. They may well have come up with the
>concept for the book, pitched it to the publisher, commissioned the
>chapter
>authors (sometimes offering a very specific brief, which includes
>intellectual content), "tidied up" the material the chapter authors send
>and
>so on and so forth. It's difficult to know where, in Darnton's
>communication
>cycle, this type of editor fits. And questionable whether cataloguers have
>sufficient information to make a judgment in each case.
>
>Tricky, veeeery tricky.
>
>Anne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 24/10/2012 13:04, "Helen Doyle" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>A 20.2 contributor seems to me to be more concerned with bringing the
>>Expression into being in whatever form it takes (RDA 20.2.1.1), whereas
>
>>a
>>19.2 creator creates original work in the first place. If editors are
>>(effectively) arranging chapters written by other people, then I would
>>view them as contributors, rather than creators.
>>
>>I guess it depends how much original input the editors have.
>>
>>HelenD.
>>
>>
>>
>>Helen Doyle
>>Assistant Librarian
>>
>>Royal Academy of Dance
>>36 Battersea Square
>>London
>>SW11 3RA
>>0207 326 8032
>>
>>
>>>>> Helen Williams <[log in to unmask]> 10/24/2012 12:32 pm >>>
>>I thought we were at the Work level because an aggregate work had been
>>compiled which effectively resulted in the creation of a new work. What
>
>>do others think?
>>
>>
>>
>>Also, although in MARC the editors would go in 700 fields, in the
>>non-MARC format, do people see them fitting in 19.2 creator (which is
>>where I ended up putting them) or 20.2 contributor?
>>
>>I was rather unsure about this.
>>
>>Helen
>>
>>
>>
>>From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>>Freedman, Vanessa
>>Sent: 24 October 2012 12:27
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] Discussion of record 4
>>
>>
>>
>>Or are the individual chapters "expressions" and the compilation a
>>"manifestation" (still can't get my head round FRBR)?
>>
>>
>>
>>Vanessa
>>
>>
>>
>>Vanessa Freedman
>>
>>Hebrew & Jewish Studies Librarian
>>
>>UCL Library Services
>>
>>University College London
>>
>>Gower Street
>>
>>London WC1E 6BT
>>
>>
>>
>>Tel: +44 (0) 20 7679 2598 (Internal ext. 32598)
>>
>>Fax: +44 (0) 20 7679 7373
>>
>>E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>Website: www.ucl.ac.uk/library
>>
>>
>>
>>**Please remember the environment and only print this if necessary**
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>>Amies, Paul
>>Sent: 24 October 2012 12:09
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] Discussion of record 4
>>
>>
>>
>>I used "compiler", although looking now at the definition of a compiler
>
>>that doesn't seem quite right.
>>
>>I think I was determined to select something from I.2 (associated with
>>work) as it didn't seem right to use something from I.3 (associated
>>with an expression), as surely we are at the level of "work" here?
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>Paul Amies
>>
>>Cataloguer
>>
>>UCL Library Services
>>
>>University College London
>>
>>Gower Street
>>
>>London
>>
>>WC1E 6BT
>>
>>
>>
>>Tel: +44 (0)20 7679 2204 (Internal ext: 32204)
>>
>>
>>
>>E-mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>
>>
>>From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>>Helen Williams
>>Sent: 24 October 2012 12:03
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [CIG-E-FORUM] Discussion of record 4
>>
>>
>>
>>Looking at the notes in Debbie's record has reminded me of a good point
>
>>to make on this record - in all the records I've looked at so far I
>>think we've all made the decision to enter all 4 editors, rather than
>>use the option to abridge.
>>
>>
>>
>>Also, what do people think about relationship designators here.  I was
>>unsure whether to use editor, or editor of compilation.
>>
>>
>>
>>Helen
>>
>>
>>
>>From: CIG E-Forum [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>>Helen Williams
>>Sent: 24 October 2012 12:00
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [CIG-E-FORUM] Discussion of record 4
>>
>>
>>
>>Let's kick off discussion of record 4 before lunchtime.
>>
>>
>>
>>Did anyone else add a related work for 'In series: Principles and
>>practice in records management and archives'
>>
>>I wasn't quite sure how to format this either.
>>
>>
>>
>>Helen
>>
>>
>>
>>Helen Williams
>>
>>Assistant Librarian, Bibliographic Services
>>
>>
>>
>>LSE Library Services
>>
>>The London School of Economics and Political Science
>>
>>10 Portugal Street
>>
>>London WC2A 2HD
>>
>>
>>
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>020 7955 7234
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic
>>communications disclaimer: http://lse.ac.uk/emailDisclaimer
>>
>>
>>Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic
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>>
>>Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic
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>>
>>
>
>Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic
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>
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