>> 3D navigation is tricky, not least because it's hard to know upfront whether a world-in-hand or eyeball-in-hand navigation metaphor has been used (i.e. do you move things by spinning the world around or by moving your POV within the space). 

Well obviously you need a gamepad with two sticks on it so that you can do both.




-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mia
Sent: 10 September 2012 16:19
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [MCG] re 3D Content on the web

It may not be directly related, but I thought Seb Chan's interview with Liz Neely, Director of Digital Information & Access at the Art Institute of Chicago, was interesting:
http://www.freshandnew.org/2012/09/pulling-rabbit-mesh-hat-liz-neely-talks-3d-digitisation-3d-printing/
Pulling a rabbit out of a mesh hat - Liz Neely talks about 3D digitisation & 3D printing

3D navigation is tricky, not least because it's hard to know upfront whether a world-in-hand or eyeball-in-hand navigation metaphor has been used (i.e. do you move things by spinning the world around or by moving your POV within the space).

Cheers, Mia

--------------------------------------------
http://openobjects.org.uk/
http://twitter.com/mia_out


On 31 August 2012 12:50, Andrew Lewis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hi Joe,
>
> A nice summary that highlights many of the issues. Thanks. Just the sort of info I was pondering about.
>
> I agree that there isn't anything obvious out there yet that is open. I also agree that it is often not possible at any one time, to deliver services purely via open means. Commercial drive also sometimes speeds up progress, although the shadow of patent and copyright misuse can take away some of the shine from that.
>
> I have an open mind on how to practically deliver services to audiences. Pragmatism will quickly tell one that closed systems often just work best, but there are potential long-tem dangers in this. For example as much as I love what Google makes available to me and what I can do with it, it is not free. Every advance in Chrome, Docs, Sketchup, iGoogle, whatever, may well be free to sign up to, but is potentially locking me and my user behaviour data into a large multi-national corporation. Still let's not get into that one!
>
> For 3D - even if we cannot make it open now, it should be a strategic direction to try to do so wherever we can. Open, freely available co-operative development is a hugely powerful thing that generates incredible innovation and doesn't lock it up in the hands of small numbers of people. If 3D delivery was like Arduino, it would be very interesting.
>
> Anyway, enough ranting :)
>
> I mainly interested in widening some of the discussion to this occasionally neglected part of the process. I am sure we have all seen amazing models and 3d captures of things let down by the delivery.
> E.g.
> - some are published in tiny windows
> - some have awful controls to manipulate them and these are not 
> generally standard in each different one
> - some need plug-ins that you may not recognise and therefore rightly may not wish to use as a security precaution. It is not unknown, to be able to view some players at home, but not on work desktops for the organisation that is publishing them so staff can't see what their audiences can see. A standard open player would help here.
>
> Anyone else got ideas, always interested in more posts on this.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> Andrew Lewis
> Digital Content Delivery Manager
> Digital Media Team
> Victoria and Albert Museum
> South Kensington
> London SW7 2RL
>
> 020 7942 2373
> [log in to unmask]
> www.vam.ac.uk
> linkd.in/andrewlewis
> @rosemarybeetle ( https://twitter.com/rosemarybeetle )
>
>
>
>>>> MCG automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> 30/08/2012 
>>>> 00:02 >>>
> There are 9 messages totaling 1355 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>   1. 3D Content on the web
>   2. Low cost collections management solutions (8)
>
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 29 Aug 2012 11:20:27 +0100
> From:    Joe Cutting <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: 3D Content on the web
>
>  >>
> I'm not qualified to get into the best way of capture and/or modelling 
> a 3D model of your boat lift, but sounds like it has potential.
>
> Most discussion I have seen, seems about capture, but not delivery.
>
> I would be interested to hear what people believe will be the most 
> likely open technology for presenting the output of such models, 
> especially on the web to end-users.
>  >>
> In theory there is an open standard technology called WebGL which lets 
> you show 3D content on the web.
> Here's a demo which runs just about ok on my Chrome browser with perky 
> graphics card:
> <http://codeflow.org/webgl/deferred-irradiance-volumes/www/>http://cod
> eflow.org/webgl/deferred-irradiance-volumes/www/
>
>
> But:
> 1) It's not ready yet. The standard is missing all the bits you need.
> It uses Javascript which, even with all the latest speed ups isn't 
> fast enough. The tools to create content are very primitive.
> 2) Browsers don't support it. As ever, browser support is patchy and 
> different for each browser. Microsoft have said they won't support it 
> because they see it as a security risk
> 3) Mobile devices are very under powered so would need 3D content 
> tailored specifically for them - even if they could run WebGL, which 
> currently they can't.
>
> All this will improve with time but given these issues I would say 
> you're probably looking at 3-5 years before you can rely on using 
> WebGL to reach an appreciable audience.
>
> You don't mention why you're so keen on an "open" solution and how you 
> define "open". The web has always been made up of various components 
> with various degrees off "openess". Most of us view the web on a 
> "closed" operating system. Museums have happily reached millions of 
> people using things like flash which are "closed source"
> but an "open standard". If you want deliver 3D content in the near 
> future the two best options are probably either Unity3D or Flash.
> 1) Unity3D has been around for a while on the web but you need to 
> download a separate plugin which not many people have. The graphics 
> quality is pretty good. It doesn't work in the browser on mobile 
> devices but you can use the same content to make apps.
> Here's a demo of Unity content. It will only work if you have the 
> Unity3d plugin installed:
> <http://unity3d.com/gallery/demos/live-demos>http://unity3d.com/galler
> y/demos/live-demos
>
>
> 2) Flash has only recently got the ability to do 3D but as its 
> installed on pretty much all desktop computers, its looking most 
> popular with professional game developers. Several of them are 
> planning big releases on Flash in the next 6 months so it's worth 
> keeping an eye on them to see how well they're received. As with Unity 
> it doesn't work in the browser on mobile devices but you can use the 
> same content to make apps. Here's a demo of the Epic Games "unreal" 
> engine running in Flash 
> <http://www.unrealengine.com/flash/>http://www.unrealengine.com/flash/
>
> So although I would agree that it would be nice to have a very "open"
> delivery mechanism. I think that currently the best solutions, that 
> they would let you reach most people with the least amount of 
> technical grief, are "closed". As with everything you need to make 
> your own mind up which to choose.
>
> Cheers
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> Joe Cutting
> Digital exhibits and installations
> www.joecutting.com
> 35 Hospital Fields Road, York, YO10 4DZ
> 01904 624681
>
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