JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for ZOOARCH Archives


ZOOARCH Archives

ZOOARCH Archives


ZOOARCH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Monospaced Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ZOOARCH Home

ZOOARCH Home

ZOOARCH  August 2012

ZOOARCH August 2012

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Help with bone id please

From:

[log in to unmask]

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Wed, 29 Aug 2012 10:51:02 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (317 lines)

Dear Julia: I have also been going around on a difficult phalanx I.D.
also, which has caused me to examine all the possibilities you've
mentioned with the help of the excellent comparative osteological
collections at the University of Kansas. On this basis, I can tell you
that:

(1) The bone is certainly not a phalanx from a bird's wing. The only
separate phalanx that any bird has in its wing, i.e. distal to the
carpometacarpus, is quite differently shaped. By private EMail I will in a
moment sent you an image of the 1st phalanx from the wing of a crane, Grus
grus -- could also send you a swan, they both being large birds; and then
you shall compare them yourself and see.

(2) The bone is also not a phalanx from the leg of a bird. Almost all
birds, even those that walk flat-footed such as swans or geese, have
phalanges that curve fairly strongly downward. Of course eagles and
gyrfalcons and big vultures and buzzards that have talons have phalanges
that are quite markedly bowed.

(3) The bone might be human, but before I'd want to bet my hat on that,
I'd want to sit down directly with a human skeleton. Of particular note is
the shallowly bifacial proximal articular surface, and the rather
asymmetrical distal articulation, i.e. the lobes which form the medial vs.
lateral parts of the distal articulation are of rather different size.
This leads me to....

(4) The possibility that this is the phalanx of a bear. Bear paws
notorously look like human hands. The asymmetry of the distal articulation
of your specimen tells me that the digits were angled outward, i.e.
laterally, relative to an axis which would bisect the radius. So I'd sure
have a look-see at a bear.

Look for my EMail in a few moments, Julia, and also my sympathies....my
mystery phalanx might embarassingly turn out to be a 2nd phalanx from a
piglet, but then again, it might also be an African tortoise. We have yet
to see! Cheers (ain't zooarch fun) -- Deb Bennett

> Dear all,
>
> Many thanks to all those who replied again. I am fairly happy now that the
> bone is the distal phalanx from the wing of a (very) large bird.
>
> The only large bird reference I have immediately available to me is a
> greylag goose. While the distal phalanx of this specimen is the best match
> I have found for the bone, the species is clearly not correct, the mystery
> bone is a little longer and much more robust. If anyone has any further
> suggestions I would be grateful to hear them.
>
> However in the mean time I am happy that it is fairly certainly not human,
> which was my main concern at this stage.
>
> Many thanks again for all your help.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Julia
>
>
>
>
> Julia Cussans
> Project Officer(Osteoarchaeology)
>
> Visit our new Facebook page: ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOLUTIONS Archaeological
> Solutions
> 98 - 100 Fore Street 6 Brunel Business Court
> Hertford Eastern Way
> Hertfordshire Bury St Edmunds
> SG14 1AB Suffolk
> IP32 7AJ
>
>
> T: 01992 558 170
>
>
>
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message and any attachments is
> confidential information intended only for the use of individuals or
> entities named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
> copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received
> this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail at the
> originating address.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: J.H. Yvinec
> To: 'Julia Cussans' ; [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:07 PM
> Subject: RE: [ZOOARCH] Help with bone id please
>
>
> Hello
>
> All the bones have this "taphonomic" appearance ? I ask this because lot
> of human bones have it. And my first think was human Ph.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> JHY
>
>
>
> J.H. Yvinec
> Ingénieur de recherche INRAP,
> Laboratoire d'archéozoologie de Compiègne,
> UMR 7209 du CNRS, Archéozoologie, Archéobotanique : Sociétés, Pratiques
> et Environnements
> CRAVO, 21 rue des Cordeliers 60200 Compiègne, France,
> tel : 33 (0)3 44 23 28 10
> <http://www.archeozoo.org/>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> De : Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] De la part de Julia Cussans
> Envoyé : mercredi 29 août 2012 13:32
> À : [log in to unmask]
> Objet : Re: [ZOOARCH] Help with bone id please
>
>
>
> Hello again,
>
>
>
> Many thanks to those of you who have sent suggestions as to what my
> mystery bone might be, it is proving to be somewhat of a conundrum!
>
>
>
> A couple of people have suggested that this might be human metapodial or
> phalange. This was my first thought but having had a look through the
> reference material available to me and several photos on the internet I
> could not find a match. Is there anyone out there who is more familiar
> with human bones who could perhaps confirm or refute this possibility?
>
>
>
> Another possible suggestion is that it may be the phalange of a large
> bird, again if anyone has any further comments on this I would be
> interested to know.
>
>
>
> Hyoid has also been suggested but I think given that it appears to have
> articular ends this is unlikely.
>
>
>
> Having had a look through some very poorly reproduced drawings of wolf
> foot bones I had thought that 1st metatarsal may have been a
> possibility, possibly of a large dog or wolf - again if anyone has
> anyone has reference material they can compare my photos with and offer
> an opinion I would be most grateful.
>
>
>
> The link to the photos is still present in the email below.
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
>
> Julia
>
>
>
>
>
> Julia Cussans
> Project Officer(Osteoarchaeology)
>
> Visit our new Facebook page: ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOLUTIONS
>
> Archaeological Solutions
>
>
> 98 - 100 Fore Street
> 6 Brunel Business Court
>
>
> Hertford
> Eastern Way
>
>
> Hertfordshire
> Bury St Edmunds
>
>
> SG14 1AB
> Suffolk
>
>
>
> IP32 7AJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
> T: 01992 558 170
>
>
>
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message and any attachments is
> confidential information intended only for the use of individuals or
> entities named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution
> or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by
> e-mail at the originating address.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Julia Cussans
>
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:34 AM
>
> Subject: [ZOOARCH] Help with bone id please
>
>
>
> Hello All,
>
>
>
> Can anyone help me identify this bone? I think it should be some sort
> of metapodial, but that is as far as I have got. I have uploaded some
> photos onto zoobook. All suggestions welcome.
>
>
> http://zooarchaeology.ning.com/photo/albums/mystery-bone-from-enf129454
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
> Julia
>
>
> Julia Cussans
> Project Officer(Osteoarchaeology)
>
> Visit our new Facebook page: ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOLUTIONS
>
> Archaeological Solutions
>
>
> 98 - 100 Fore Street
> 6 Brunel Business Court
>
>
> Hertford
> Eastern Way
>
>
> Hertfordshire
> Bury St Edmunds
>
>
> SG14 1AB
> Suffolk
>
>
>
> IP32 7AJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
> T: 01992 558 170
>
>
>
>
> Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message and any attachments
> is confidential information intended only for the use of individuals
> or entities named above. If the reader of this message is not the
> intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
> distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
> immediately by e-mail at the originating address.
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5231 - Release Date:
> 08/28/12
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5231 - Release Date:
> 08/28/12
>

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager