Yeah, in things like sound poetry (& certainly poetry readings) I like the Live event, too, Lawrence.
But I just thought of a piece by a Canadian, Colin Morton, sounding some of Ur-Sonata, with typewriter movement on screen that really worked quite well:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=3452422759344
But that wasnt a performance so much as a use of the tools....
bpNichol did a bunch of moving visual poems, which are still amazing...(& created on his little computer back then).
So, I'm generally not overwhelmed, but as always there are the exceptions....
I do think your arguments are strong...
Doug
On 2012-08-24, at 10:38 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Sorry? Doug. Nothing to be sorry for.
>
> I think it's a problematic area. In itself, I mean. And I hesitated to say
> it because I do not associate the _problems_ with Chris.
>
> He may be about to do something wonderful.
>
> It was just that in the manner of his description I did want to ask Why?
>
> I think that considering poetry as a linear and sonic practice is leaving
> little room for the visual over and above the visual inculcated in the
> inner ear by the visual.
>
> The things which I do seek out those areas where there is visual *and
> where there is sonic.
>
> Early this summer I was chatting with John Drever and he raised the
> question of how far what I am doing with him *is poetry as poetry,
> suggesting it may be heading more into music; and someone else just wrote
> of it as cinema. He was using these terms as indicative and descriptive
> rather than naming forbidden territories
>
> John was saying that he would like to get into things with more semantic
> content again. We had (my) words coming out of our ears and speakers a few
> years ago.
>
> I saw a reading many many years ago now, 74? 75? of Ed Dorn reading
> Gunslinger in which everything was worked out -- in the way he was dressed
> and the way he stood... Not in the way you'd say Did you see Kylie
> Minogue's outfit? and that dance?
>
> This was another league; but so understated. I remember it though because
> while some are better at reading and some are worse, this man was as near
> perfect as...
>
> I saw Ted Hughes approaching perfection that way, though in that case I
> found it as enjoyable as falling downstairs; but he'd thought about it and
> worked at it
>
> One thing i didn't raise in my post was the question of _live presence_
> and my belief or axiom that the recording is less desirable than the live
> event and, to me, not as interesting.
>
> Yet I've just agreed to the publication of a recorded work because it's
> not an article of faith or anything, no meat on Fridays or something, and
> one cannot hope to be seen by more than a fraction of those who are
> interested; but it remains that, for me, a compromise is made.
>
> Actually I am not against the totally studio and a project I am working on
> with Wilt Azevedo in Brazil will probably end up with a number of things
> that are just switched on... There's a Peter Finch article somewhere that
> I liked where he describes the M of Ceremonies switching on a tape
> recorder, as was, and then turning it off n minutes later.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, August 24, 2012 17:12, Douglas Barbour wrote:
>> Ah, hey Lawrence, sorry about that.
>>
>>
>> I actually remember a number of early attempts at 'visualizing' poems on
>> screen (then as little films) & how I hated them, as most of them
>> ham-handedly presented the most obvious visuals of the imagery &
>> metaphors in the poems. Able only to make singular that which was
>> multiple.
>>
>> One could laugh..., but that was about it.
>>
>>
>> I think it's possible to do something interesting, but that requires a
>> truly visual artist at work...?
>>
>> Now I do know that some sound poets have made use of technology to play
>> with their voices while others just use their voices: Henri Chopin /
>> bpNichol, eg.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> On 2012-08-24, at 9:48 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> ah
>>>
>>> when I say _sonic emphatic_ I mean _sonic semantic_
>>>
>>> old tired brain tripping over its own cliches
>>>
>>> L
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------- Original Message
>>> ----------------------------
>>> Subject: Re: poetry video
>>> From: "Lawrence Upton" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Date: Fri, August 24, 2012 16:39
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I read Chris's post earlier; and thought about it; and decided
>>> that I had nothing much to say.
>>>
>>>
>>> I shall try to pick my words carefully... if I can. I don't wish to
>>> offend or tell anyone I am right and they are wrong. Not on this case...
>>> I think
>>> the best thing I can do is say what I don't want to do and why!
>>>
>>>> Poetry video, as in music video.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Immediately puts me off! Not that I see many music videos these days. I
>>> *can enjoy them. I can put myself in that mode. (Now and then I go to
>>> McDonalds.)
>>>
>>>
>>> But I get little out of it when they tell stories floating off from the
>>> song. Or when they show pictures of the famous people singing in mid
>>> celebrity strut. It all begins to blur for me; and though they are
>>> different they all look the same in my memory.
>>>
>>> But that is where I am now. I was quite up to my ears in some kinds of
>>> pop into the 80s. I remember one of my partner's kids sort of boasting
>>> sort of moaning how much we were into pop music... I also remember a
>>> seemingly interminable intellectual argument manqué with his sister when
>>> I failed to
>>> agree that Jesus and Mary Chain owed nothing to Velvet Underground. (She
>>> played me hers and I said Velvet Underground and she said What's
>>> Velvet
>>> Underground?)
>>>
>>>
>>> Let me show my age and refer to the video of Dylan's subterranean
>>> homesick blues. I really liked that. That was doing something. I still
>>> don't know what and I value that.
>>>
>>> Then a while after there was a video (I use the term loosely) of LIKE A
>>> ROLLING STONE and that was him getting on and off planes and looking
>>> remarkably like John Cooper Clarke.
>>>
>>> Not very interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>> I remember the Peter Gabriel Sledgehammer video and I quite liked that.
>>> And recently I have been getting into some Kate Bush videos though
>>> some of the more interesting ones have disappeared from the web.
>>>
>>> So in terms of music videos, maybe I am not the best person...
>>>
>>>
>>> I think what I can draw from this paucity of examples (as one draws
>>> treacle from a treacle well) is that I am most interested when something
>>> happens *between the music and the image.
>>>
>>> I am thinking of a musician, I won't quote the name because I am scared
>>> I
>>> am misquoting slightly, who says I believe that he doesn't need a visual
>>> with the sound work – we're talking electronic and electro-acoustic
>>> here
>>>
>>> & I can understand that but something else may happen when genres are
>>> put beside each other and maybe he is just not that visual
>>>
>>> so when Chris says
>>>
>>> First you lay down and edit the sound
>>>
>>>>> track which is a reading of the poem and then you collage visual
>>>>> video images along with the sound track.
>>>
>>> That's fine. I won't disparage it; but it doesnt engage me.
>>>
>>>
>>> I was told off a while back by a friend who said “Lawrence you always
>>> say that”, so I hesitate, but I cannot see the attraction.
>>>
>>> I don't much like illustration. Illustration can support weak material
>>> and it can expand strong material. Mostly it just sits there
>>>
>>> I am more interested in use of the visual which treats the sonic-visual
>>> as one thing, as the sonic-emphatic can be
>>>
>>> I have seen a number of films going with poetry and found them
>>> soporific; and I tend to think of a black beast I have mentioned here --
>>> putting the sound of wind and running water over Wordsworth's Prelude
>>>
>>> Maybe no one's interest – and that's fine – so I'll shut up now and see
>>> if there are any takers
>>>
>>> L
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, August 24, 2012 15:44, Douglas Barbour wrote:
>>>
>>>> I suspect Lawrence could fill you in, her, Chris, but I know it's
>>>> going on, although I havent paid too much attention. UBUWEB probably
>>>> has some....
>>>>
>>>> Doug
>>>> On 2012-08-23, at 8:25 PM, Chris Jones <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Poetry video, as in music video. First you lay down and edit the
>>>>> sound track which is a reading of the poem and then you collage
>>>>> visual video images along with the sound track.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did this about 20 years ago and the analog videos went around the
>>>>> world. But I have yet to see this again... surely i was not the
>>>>> first and this must be happening again, esp given computers and
>>>>> multimedia which in the analog days would cost tens of thousands of
>>>>> dollars.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, must rush to catch the bus to buy a mike and headphones.
>>>>> (My
>>>>> pro mike is back in Narrabri so it is much cheaper to buy a new one,
>>>>> for now.) Watch out for me on youtube!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Douglas Barbour
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
>>>> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Latest books:
>>>> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy)
>>>> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962
>>>> Wednesdays'
>>>> http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-from-aboveground-pres
>>>> s_10 .html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why can’t words mean what they say?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Robert Kroetsch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Lawrence Upton
>>>
>>>
>>> http://sho-zyg.com/upton.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
>>> Goldsmiths, University of London
>>> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Lawrence Upton
>>>
>>>
>>> http://sho-zyg.com/upton.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
>>> Goldsmiths, University of London
>>> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
>>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Douglas Barbour
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
>> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
>>
>>
>> Latest books:
>> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy)
>> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962
>> Wednesdays'
>> http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-from-aboveground-press_10
>> .html
>>
>>
>>
>> Why can’t words mean what they say?
>>
>>
>> Robert Kroetsch
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
> Lawrence Upton
>
> http://sho-zyg.com/upton.html
>
> Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
> Goldsmiths, University of London
> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
> ----
> I think what I can draw from this paucity of examples (as one draws
>
Douglas Barbour
[log in to unmask]
http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
Latest books:
Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy)
http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962
Wednesdays'
http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-from-aboveground-press_10.html
Why can’t words mean what they say?
Robert Kroetsch
|
