Sure Craig,but what if someone questioned if you were "actually" oppressed and ridiculed your position? You would react to the ridicule and to the dismissal of your suffering - irrespective of the "intellect" bolstering their argument.
As you state," Far enough but if this is stretched just a little surely it is the tip of an iceberg wherin people's views of themselves should be respected - whatever they may be." There are many calloused and intellectual responses that could be made to your plight: Uncaring people could challenge your perception of "chill" and suggest that perhaps you are hypersensitive. Others could challenge why you think you shouldn't be inconvenienced and suggest that you are over-privileged and have unreasonable expectations. Conservatives would ask why others should have to pay for you to live in an area of smaller population and challenge your need for a wheelchair and public transport. The bureaucrats would insist that the solution was for you to work so you had private transport; thus suggesting that you are lazy rather than oppressed. Calloused people could query whether you were 'actually' disabled at that time and use intellectual and experimental methods to bolster their position.
If this was a public group where you were the lone voice you would not enjoy being labelled and having your position publicly questioned. Worse to be ridiculed (through humour or deprecation) and publicly shamed. Granted, you state you are relating a "simple", relatively minor oppression that only affects part of your living and thus you could perhaps shrug such ridicule off and not feel as personally hurt. Gender permeates every aspect of a person's existence. Social delegitimation of gender identity results in multiple, ongoing and simultaneous oppressions of the entire person-self throughout the lifespan. Gavi is advocating for a 'person first' construction. His protest is about the derogatory challenge of his position on a list designed to be intellectually rigorous about social construction and how that defines and confines human identity and capacity. You stated, "These are not attempts to disparage" but you were disparaging. Your comments "stir the intellectual cauldron BY trampling" another person even if that was not your intent. A core experience of being oppressed is being trampled by another. I am suggesting that the intellect of an argument is not more important than the ethics of its imposition. Further, I am questioning the valuation of intellectual dominance over care. I imagine that you are giving some tacit recognition of this when you state that 'skunks only stink when under threat' given that threat (as a dominance tactic) is not always the best offensive for the situation at hand.
Regards
Katie
Dr. Katie Thomas
Telethon Institute for Child Health Research
PO Box 855
WEST PERTH 6872
Western Australia http://www.ichr.uwa.edu.au
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-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of Craig Newnes
Sent: Tue 8/14/2012 6:38 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: On skunks etc
Skunks have a bad name but only stink when under threat. The only thing on the list that offends me is the combination of right-on rhetoric on behalf of 'the oppressed' and intellectual flacidity - Mark Rapley hated the latter despite my argument that it is a defining human trait 2 be inconsistent. A simple oppression for me is as a person limited to country-side public transport; no service on Sundays, last bus @ 6.10 weekdays + open bus shelters that chill the bones in the winter. My wheel chair days were a nightmare - buses that cdnt lower the door step + no room inside coz of a push chair (despite numerous empty seats). Yes, I protested and No it made no odds because the country is governed from London where buses run at least evry 12 mins 24/7 and have more space (+ better disabled passes 2 boot) Craig
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-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Newnes <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:17:48
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
<[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] stirring the cauldron without trampling each other's ground
My ref 2 the dog was ill thought out tho I saw two patients who saw their identities as dogs + all my reference to metaphor made no odds for them (and many dogs are truly loved). My identities include disabled + Jewish but I note that Jackie centred on the white, male, prof side to make her point (I'm no longer a prof and I had a phase in my 20s of being bi + enjoying 'women's' clothing - I still love shopping with women). The rhetoric of having suffered thru a non-imposed identity doesn't wash and ignores the reality we have multiple identities on a daily/contextual basis - you can see more of this in my chapter 'On responsibility' or in Demasio but novellists deal with it best - see HG Wells circa 1900 Craig
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-----Original Message-----
From: Stephanie Meadows <[log in to unmask]>
Sender: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 10:02:45
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
<[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] stirring the cauldron without trampling each other's ground
the recent conversation about discriminatory behaviour must be still out of balance, because i feel pressure to accept before i properly understand
i often appreciate Craigs 'throw spaghetti at the walls' approach to difficult to understand areas, and probably wouldn't be able to exist on the list without it
i feel more intimidated by righteous expertise, and as a result would generally find Gavi's style more silencing (even though it feels that is not his intention)
i was shocked that the dog metaphor was seen as so offensive as i saw it as a random example of how there are many ways society categorises us against our will;
i don't see animals as lower beings anyway
are people really saying that craig knew he was being offensive and did it to intimidate gavi???
why would he be lurking on the list waiting to do that?
indigenous psychology talks about 'Skunk Medicine', and Craig is good at using it to teach and explore with, if you're open to respect and learn from it
let's see now whether craig is insulted by being compared to a skunk
still here
steph meadows
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