Dear all,
Jon is absolutely right on this and I did not see any pettiness in his comments.
Yes, Jon is like marmite - but I learn a lot from his posts and thank him for them.
Stuart
----- Reply message -----
From: "Jonathan Cloke" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: The United States of Everywhere
Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2012 11:19 am
Surely the point here is that the the 'leader, country and political system' that I refer to is exerting hegemony over people that are not its own citizens, including me? Am I not therefore entitled to comment on an increasingly authoritarian system that arrogates to itself the right (should it so wish) to dispose of my life, or the life of anyone on this planet that it can reach, on the grounds of its 'national security'?
Why is it petty to make that observation? President Obama, as we now all know, sits down every Tuesday with Mr Brennan, his 'Counter-Terrorism Czar' and draws up lists of people that they choose to murder. Strangely, none of those people are inside the territorial boundaries of the US (yet) and very few indeed are US citizens - the fact that they are in no way linked to a leader, country and political system that is not their own has so far not prevented them from being murdered, along with substantial numbers of bystanders. The particularly vicious form of terrorism that involves using drones to target the funerals of people already killed by drone strikes guarantees that, even if the original strike victims were terrorists most of the people attending those funerals won't be.
Empire hands on atrocity to empire (to paraphrase Philip Larkin) along with the delusion of exceptionalism, the assertion of a higher moral state of being that gives the possessor god-like powers of life and death over lesser mortals. So President Obama, going far further than President Bush, asserts his right to have people from anywhere in the world detained indefinitely without trial, to kill them anywhere in the world when and where he likes without recourse to any due process - and now, with the NDAA, he can have the US military turn up at *your* office and disappear you indefinitely or kill you should he so wish.
Your comments have the smack of 'buyer's remorse' to them, so given there's a (fairly pointless) presidential election coming up, I'll make you a deal - I'll keep my 'petty and useless comments' to myself if you keep your leader, country and political system to yourself......
Dr Jon Cloke
LCEDN/MEGS Research Associate
Geography Department
Loughborough University
Loughborough LE11 3TU
Office: 01509 228193
Mob: 07984 813681
________________________________________
From: Christopher A Lizotte [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 19 July 2012 19:10
To: Jonathan Cloke
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The United States of Everywhere
The CRIT-GEOG forum is a place to share news and discuss it in an intelligent and informed manner. I agree that the information contained in the article is troubling and worthy of scrutiny, discussion, and possible political action.
However, Dr. Cloke, I will thank you to keep your petty and useless comments on a that is not your own to yourself.
Chris Lizotte
Department of Geography
University of Washington
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Jonathan Cloke <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
We're all US citizens now... Obama can kill us for his sport.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/pentagon-new-generation-military-bases-tom-dispatch
Dr Jon Cloke
LCEDN/MEGS Research Associate
Geography Department
Loughborough University
Loughborough LE11 3TU
Office: 01509 228193
Mob: 07984 813681
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