Hallo

> Lawrence, I don't tell people not to marry. I don't tell people to do
> anything, really - except social controls like drive on the left, stop at
> red traffic lights, don't drink and drive, etc. But even these change
> from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

I am considering telling someone to stop saying sssh and spend their time
instead on making their children less inclined to scream; but I see they
are going now....

I didn't think you did say that...

I too was just talking

> Just talking, really. Marriage is such a can full of worms. Yes, we
> should treat people equally - but when's that happened in history on any
> level - social, financial, politically. I'm no expert on Europe's rules at
> all, so is there any society today where the citizens are close to equal?
> None in
> Aisa, for sure.

Some more than others. The Scandinavian countries beat UK hands down on
women's rights. I think.

I think. I remember Alaric Sumner telling me that I hadnt really got a
hope in hell of knowing anything in this area, because I wouldn't pick
_it_up, male, hetero, not yet on the breadline

Certainly just being with him in public taught me quite a bit about direct
and covert abuse. His experience was really very different to mine. His
point was that I was largely invisible if I wanted to be. He rarely was.

A minor life-changing experience.

On your other point... It's not so much if it ever happened before as
whether we should behave as though it might.

I have no desire to get married; but I doubt it would worry me greatly if
someone proposed it -- and if I welcomed the broad thrust (if you'll
pardon the expression) of the proposal.

I'd probably ask if she really wanted marriage. If I felt I couldn't
easily ask that, it might be an indication that the relationship could be
a mistake. I am quite good at relationships that are mistakes and am
settling more and more for relationships of convenience

Years ago I said to my boss I might wobble a bit for a bit because a
relationship was breaking up; and she suggested, based on her experience,
that I consider holding it together if I could: "there's a lot to be said
for boredom and regular sex, Lawrence". Stuck in my head. We hadn't had a
conversation like that before.

but of course you can just shack up and get boredom and regular sex. Or not.

I, however, have inclined more and more to the separate establishment
approach

L





>
>
> As some Hollywood star used to say, *I loves youse all!* I like to
> believe poets are equal ...
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
> On 11 May 2012 20:59, Jill Jones <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>> So far as I'm concerned, it's about having the choice. You can chose or
>>  not. But if you don't have access to the same choices as other
>> citizens do then you are not being treated equally. That's the point of
>> all this. Surely.
>>
>>
>> I have been married too. I may or may not wish to go there again. It's
>> fine to be cynical but that's not the point. It is about having the
>> choice, as all heterosexual citizens do and non-heteros don't, in
>> Australia.
>>
>>
>> It is a political act, potentially.
>>
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/05/2012, at 8:13 PM, Lawrence Upton wrote:
>>
>>
>>> but you don't want to stop people marrying, do you?
>>>
>>> L
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 11, 2012 12:41, Chris Jones wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/05/12 17:25, Andrew Burke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I cannot understand why people want to expand the incidence of
>>>>> marriage.
>>>> I suspect this is the real reason our PM does not support gay
>>>>
>> marriage???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> for my own self, I am opposed to marriage... gay or straight...
>>>>
>>>> but then perhaps I am an old fashion gay liberation type... gays
>>>> against the nuclear family
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Lawrence Upton
>>> Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
>>> Goldsmiths, University of London
>>> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
>>> ----
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew
> http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
> http://www.mullamullapress.com/QWERTY
> BLUE ROSE enovel avail. at Amazon, Smashwords and
> http://etextpress.com/books.htm
>
>


-----
Lawrence Upton
Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
Goldsmiths, University of London
New Cross, London SE14 6NW
----