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Subject:

Re: Engagement workshop

From:

"GRUBB, Tim" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Issues related to Historic Environment Records <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 9 May 2012 08:58:28 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (551 lines)

We are not allowed to social network fullstop



Tim Grubb - HER Officer

Gloucestershire County Council Archaeology Service

Shire Hall, Westgate Street, Gloucester. GL1 2TH

Tel - 01452 425705

Email - [log in to unmask]

Web - www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archaeology

HER Enquiries. www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/her



Go to www.gloucestershire.gov.uk to find information on any County Council service. It couldn't be easier to find information instantly and in some cases apply for services online.





-----Original Message-----

From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Evans

Sent: 09 May 2012 08:48

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: Engagement workshop



Odd

We can access flickr and twitter but not facebook!



David Evans

Historic Environment Record Officer

(Postal Address)

Strategic Planning Policy & Specialist Advice

Department of Environment and Community Services

PO Box 2081

The Council Offices, Castle Street

Thornbury

South Gloucestershire

BS35 9BP

Phone: 01454 863649

fax:       01454 864473

-----Original Message-----

From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records

[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of GRUBB, Tim

Sent: 09 May 2012 07:51

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: Engagement workshop



...if only we could access Flickr



Tim Grubb - HER Officer

Gloucestershire County Council Archaeology Service

Shire Hall, Westgate Street, Gloucester. GL1 2TH

Tel - 01452 425705

Email - [log in to unmask]

Web - www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archaeology

HER Enquiries. www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/her



Go to www.gloucestershire.gov.uk to find information on any County

Council service. It couldn't be easier to find information instantly and

in some cases apply for services online.



-----Original Message-----

From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records

[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of NEWMAN, Martin

Sent: 09 May 2012 07:50

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: Engagement workshop



I've added you as a contact on Flickr Brian.

I thought I'd share some Flickr links that Forum members might find

interesting:

Swindon Central Library has a very good and regularly updated photo

stream mainly with scans of old photographs

http://www.flickr.com/photos/swindonlocal/

EH has used Flickr for Heritage at risk with a specific groups for the

most recent theme of industrial heritage at risk

http://www.flickr.com/groups/industrialheritageatrisk/ and Buildings at

Risk http://www.flickr.com/groups/buildingsatrisk/



Martin



________________________________________

From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records

[[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Giggins

[[log in to unmask]]

Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 5:39 PM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [HERFORUM] Engagement workshop



Having retired I have endeavoured to dabble in the 'social media' to

promote the history of the Towcester and some of my research in to

Northamptonshire buildings Initially I was very impressed with a

Facebook group called 'Northampton past' which now has over 2500

members. The members posted old photographs of the town and others

commented on them. So in parallel I started a 'Towcester History and

photographs' group, put details in the local history society newsletter.

the local NN12 Website and a poster in the library - total membership 33

(some of which are family and none are from the Local History Society!).

I put good historic detail with the pictures which a a few friends

comment on or 'like' but few others do. Sadly I seldom now put material

of the Northampton past site as the membership seem seldom interested in

material before the Victorians but delight in nostalgia - which is

perfectly valid .

Recently I have used Flickr to put on about 50 dated buildings in

Northamptonshire from 1611 to 1913 which I thought could be useful for

those interested in vernacular architecture -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lactoduro/sets/72157629874852499/ . They

were linked to 3  Flickr groups containing over 3500 members. It doesn't

take long to realise that the proportion of  Flckr members wanting their

material  to be seen vastly outnumbers those looking for images.

My very limited experience in Northamptonshire so far suggests that

local heritage material has a limited appeal on social media unless it

has a high nostalgia content and many of the members of Northamptonshire

local history societies, where much of the interest in Local Heritage

interest lies, will not touch social media with a 'barge pole'. It is

therefore important not to rely on web material alone. What possibly

needs to be considered are the benefits of regularly commenting on

Heritage material put forward by others on the social media as well as

generating it yourself.



Regards



Brian Giggins



On 8 May 2012 11:50, Roderick Millard

<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

> wrote:

I wasn't at the seminar (or following it over the ether), but I'm going

to wade in with a few thoughts of my own on the use of social media:



Instead of just looking at the proportions of people who access YouTube,

Twitter, and Facebook (or, as I like to call them "You-Twit-Face") it

may be more relevant to consider the demographics. Many of them

(particularly regular users) are younger professionals or students, who

are less likely to engage in "traditional" outreach programs, but will

take part in online surveys and email petitions - all without leaving

the comfort of their living room/office/basement [delete as

appropriate].



While this has been used to great effect for national (or international)

protest, community groups are starting to realise its potential for

local issues as well - you are starting to get campaigns opposing Tesco

stores or to save particular landmarks from demolition. So clearly the

"twitterati" care about the character of their local area, but are not

being engaged by traditional means - while many (mostly) older activists

are participating in the usual public enquiries etc. but are not being

engaged online (if they even have internet access).



In these circumstances, it is all too easy to say that because one or

other demographic did not engage in the process, they did not care about

the issue (something our elected leaders have been known to use to ram

through proposals in the past). But the only way to get truly

representative response is to do outreach through multiple streams -

including face-to-face research, public participation events, AND social

media. The more streams we use, the more representative the responses

will be.



All of which is a very long winded way of saying that while social media

should never REPLACE traditional outreach activities, it is increasingly

necessary to use the two approaches in parallel, otherwise we risk not

just alienating but entirely omitting a sizable chunk of the population

who we would not normally reach.



Rod Millard

HER Officer

Bath & North East Somerset Council

________________________________________

From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records

[[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of

Peter Insole

[[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]

Sent: 02 May 2012 14:53

To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: Engagement workshop



I would like to apologise to David on behalf of English Heritage if you

were misled in anyway about the concept behind the workshop.

And in response to both you and Jenny, as I said in my rant on Friday,

at no point was the suggestion that social media should replace

traditional means of out reach. A variety of media or channels are

required so that our processes are inclusive and transparent. The

afternoon scenarios actually proposed a variety of tools for engagement

from high tech to no tech and the work groups' outcomes all used a

variety of each to achieve the fictitious goals.



The aim of the day was to demonstrate how social media can be a very

useful tool (or series of tools) where appropriate. I personally think

that social media such as flickr, facebook, soundcloud/audioboo etc can

be useful tools to capture a process or event to engage a wider audience

and broadcast or disseminate the results as opposed to writing up a

report and publishing a document on the web or as a leaflet. This would

be particularly useful in an on-going process like a Conservation Area

Appraisal or Neighbourhood Plan. I'm going to put this into practice as

part of one of our current Conservation Area Character Appraisals where

I'll be using twitter before, during and after a public event along with

soundcloud to capture people's oral testimonies. This will not replace

the written word, final document, traditional press etc, but I believe

it will explore the potential to reach a wider audience with minimal

resource implications for me (which was the other point of the workshop

- to demonstrate that these tools do not have to mean huge amounts of

extra work for HEROs).



Since I started using twitter I have become aware of many links to

sources of information or projects that I would not have otherwise seen.



Incidentally, on a similar issue if we are trying to be inclusive and we

accept that not everyone has a computer it is interesting that Bristol

City Council almost always use a paper free consultation approach using

the Ask Bristol resource http://www.bristol.gov.uk/page/have-your-say



Best wishes,







Peter Insole

Archaeological Officer

City Development (Urban Design and Conservation)

Neighbourhoods and City Development



BristolCity Council

Brunel House

St.Georges Road

Bristol, BS1 5UY





www.bristol.gov.uk/citydesigngroup<http://www.bristol.gov.uk/citydesigng

roup>

www.bristol.gov.uk/knowyourplace<http://www.bristol.gov.uk/knowyourplace

>



Tel: 0117 9223033

Fax: 0117 9224637



This e-mail is confidential and is intended solely for the use of the

individual(s) or organisation to whom it is addressed. Any views or

opinions expressed (including those contained within any attachments)

represent an informal opinion of an officer of the City Council and are

not binding on the Local Planning Authority. If you are not the intended

recipient and you have received this e-mail in error you must take no

action based on it. Please delete/destroy and inform the sender

immediately.





>>> Jenny Hall <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>

02/05/2012 11:27 >>>

I didn't attend the session so hope I am not speaking out of turn, but

have I am particularly aware of the pressures to use digital technology

in interpretation.



There are many opportunities through using social media/ techonology and

these shold always be explored but we should not pat ourselves on the

back and say we are reaching everyone.  Each Facebook page or Smart

phones app will reach a certain group of people but it has to be seen as

exclusive, for all sorts of reasons: cost, desire, technology etc.

Exclusivity/inclusivity used to be key components of all sorts of work,

but the terms aren't mentioned when digital technology is part of the

mix.



Only 50 % of people have a Smart Phone, ony 30 million people have a

Facebook account - half the population.  As David Evans says these are

just figures and they aren't scrutinised.  I have a Facebook account but

I rarely use it, and the majority of my friends on Facebook rarely use

it either, so we are part of that 30million but probably wouldn't engage

in any project through it.  Encouraging people to use social media

sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, and just as in a meeting it is

still the certain people who are heard most loudly







----- Original Message -----

 From: David Evans

 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>

 Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 10:22 AM

 Subject: Engagement workshop





 On Luddites the 200th anniversary of the attack on Rawfords Mill is on

the 11th April - sledgehammers welcome.



 Unlike Bob Jones I am not Luddite - a Rebecca perhaps - but I do not

have a smart phone or any other such device and don't intend to have

one. I don't need to tell people I am on the train - I know that.







 The original publicity for the workshop appeared to be a debate about

public engagement but that is not what we got. If I had seen the

programm earlier I almost certainly would not have gone. I am not

convinced by the argument that the silent majority will get a voice

through social media - this was certainly implied. The noisy certainly

succeeded in the workshop.







 Everyone does not have a computer.







 1 In the short term yes in the longer term hopefully no.







 2 The fact that there are 30 million UK users of Facebook and 26

million UK users of Twitter means that there are 30 million UK users of

Facebook and 26 million UK users of Twitter nothing more; nothing less.

They might have a use but it is limited and the workshop did not

demonstrate any expanded use. As I said before Flicker will be of

immense use in compiling, for example local lists







 3 If you are doing a Conservation Area assessment then postal

information (thank you GIS) and meetings with the people involved, even

(horror horror) cold calls, a blog might help, however most blogs are

for fanatics and self publicists.







 4 Surely Know Your Place a traditional website (traditional and website

in the same sentence) where instead of emailing the site you can add

things to a map, Yes social media may have a place but then so does

quantum computing







 I still feel the day could have been handled better replacing the

useless afternoon session.







 In reply to your discussion point - perhaps







 Incidentally why are we left with pieces of paper from the day?







 David Evans



 Historic Environment Record Officer



 (Postal Address)



 Strategic Planning Policy & Specialist Advice



 Department of Environment and Community Services



 PO Box 2081



 The Council Offices, Castle Street



 Thornbury



 South Gloucestershire



 BS35 9BP



 Phone: 01454 863649



 fax:       01454 864473







 I thought the workshop in Birmingham was very successful. I'd be

interested to know what you were hoping to get out of the event?



 There was plenty of references to the variety of tools at our disposal

for public engagement from tea and cake to facebook.



 At no time will social media replace the need for face to face

discussions, nor was this proposed at the event.







 The point of the workshop was to cover some other options that people

might not have thought about and in this regard some points were quite

important I think given the economy, localism etc.







 1 If we want to continue in our role as custodians of the historic

environment and to contribute to the creation of better quality places

we need new approaches that help us truly deliver more with less.



 2 The fact that there are 30 million UK users of Facebook and 26

million UK users of Twitter means that we would be fools not to use

these as one of our communication channels.



 3 Leaflets on doormats on my street are only relevant to the residents

of my street. However, if that message is also published on social media

the information or the approach has the potential to generate wider

interest. It doesn't mean it will happen, but to ignore the potential

would be a missed opportunity. I am more likely to read and respond to a

blog entry than a published case study.



 4 If we as historic environment professionals are to remain relevant we

need to form new partnerships and collaborations. Use of social media

will enable this to happen. Although Know Your Place is not truly social

media, it is crowd sourced HER data. Since launching the site last year

our HER has not only reached a wider audience, but we now have

partnership projects with the Universities (Bristol and UWE neither of

which ever used to speak to me), I have given talks to umpteen

organisations such as our local Civic Society, we have had three

exhibitions and the website is mentioned by developers, planners and

most importantly local members. I would argue that the use of social

media might actually result in more face to face discussions.







 One comment in my group at the workshop was that just to get heritage

on the table when it comes to regeneration, policy or place making would

be a result. Given the profile that the Bristol HER now has, might it

not be possible to achieve the same across the UK through the use of

social media? Discuss.











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 South Gloucestershire Council - rated April 2009 under the

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 This email and any files transmitted with it from South Gloucestershire

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______________________________________________________________________

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Portico: your gateway to information on sites in the National Heritage

Collection; have a look and tell us what you think.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/archives-and-collections

/portico/



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___________________________________________________________________________



South Gloucestershire Council ? rated April 2009 under the Comprehensive

Performance Assessment a maximum ?4 star? council by the Audit Commission.

____________________________________________________________________________



This email and any files transmitted with it from South Gloucestershire Council

are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to

whom they are addressed. You should not forward it by any method to anyone else

who does not have a justified ?need to know'.



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