I meant: scilly, not scillies
which is tourist industry speak
L
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Perconger]
From: "Lawrence Upton" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sat, May 19, 2012 19:56
To: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" <[log in to unmask]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are
It's evening
I was just thinking of an oddity
that I grew up knowing the name of this island, and knowing it as _agnes_
via my mother who heard *her father, an islander, from an adjacent island,
say it... I think that's going now with in migration; but, well, a hundred
years ago, there was a clear survival, it seems, of the earlier name
and agnes islanders often refer to the place without the word saint there
and similarly _scilly_ not scilly... it always was a collective, but the
sense of many islands is new. it's always been functionally singular... an
island, with an other, ek enes beside
and the language still carries that those now there are 5 inhabited
islands, 6 really -- and I find that fascinating, a millennium, maybe
more, inferred by the syntax
enough
enjoy *your weekend
L
On Sat, May 19, 2012 19:49, Sheila Murphy wrote:
> Not at all! I really appreciate the perspective, believe me. Have a
> wonderful weekend (You're ahead of us and already "in" it) :)
>
> Sheila
>
>
> On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Lawrence Upton
> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>
>> Oh good
>>
>>
>> I thought I was being nerdy
>>
>>
>> L
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 19, 2012 19:37, Sheila Murphy wrote:
>>
>>> Lawrence, what a bonus! I awoke to your beautifully educational
>>> missive! Several features of the locale were new to me, notably the
>>> names and why (including Agnes). Thank you for this. I've saved for
>>> rereading and reminding.
>>>
>>> The explanation of the terrain, its fit into the English and
>>> not-English elements, provides a very fine frame around what is an
>>> extremely fine poem!
>>>
>>> Thanks, Sheila
>>> On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> yes, it all seems to have come through in an odd order
>>>>
>>>> I don't think I'll say anything
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> they've been werry good to me they have
>>>>
>>>> L
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 19, 2012 17:34, Douglas Barbour wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it did, at least to me
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (but then I cant see much of the time if mine get through,
>>>>> so...).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug
>>>>> On 2012-05-19, at 7:04 AM, Lawrence Upton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> didnt seem to get through
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------- Original Message
>>>>>> ----------------------------
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Perconger
>>>>>> From: "Lawrence Upton" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Date: Sat, May 19, 2012 11:45
>>>>>> To: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics"
>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Chris (and Sheila) and thanks for your comments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not quite sure what constitutes English in a good way
>>>>>> poetry; but I'll not argue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I shall now tell you more than you may want to know
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is England but... It is Scilly. Scilly is in the extreme
>>>>>> south-west of Britain, about three hours off the coast of
>>>>>> Cornwall,
>>>>>> or twenty minutes if you go by air.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cornwall is not England whatever the English say. Scilly is.
>>>>>> Not
>>>>>> that it matters except in terms of dealing with the buffoons who
>>>>>> rule us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Relate it, if you will, to my many poems about the bar between
>>>>>> St
>>>>>> Agnes
>>>>>> and The Gugh. That bar creates two coves, bays, whatever between
>>>>>> the two islands - there is basically a drowned valley between in
>>>>>> which a bar has formed. (Two asynch tides)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The southern cove is called The Cove. It used to have a
>>>>>> different Cornish
>>>>>> name which I have either forgotten or never knew. The Cove is
>>>>>> undeniably an English name and Cornish hasn't been spoken on
>>>>>> Scilly
>>>>>> for many centuries. The Gugh, too, is English, I believe, though
>>>>>> not current. Agnes means off-island and is nothing to do with a
>>>>>> female saint -- something like ek enes, but there is no
>>>>>> surviving record of that formulation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Off The Cove is Covean (from Cove Vean, one word English, one
>>>>>> word Cornish, Cornish syntax): small cove
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The northern cove is called Perconger, and we arrive by swerve
>>>>>> or shore and bend of bay at my title. Perconger is what the
>>>>>> islanders have done to "Porth Conger".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Porth is landing place. Can't tell you what conger means. (I
>>>>>> have posted poems about Periglis where I like to spend my time
>>>>>> stroking a cat. Porth Eglos, landing place by the church -- of,
>>>>>> if you translate sloppily, Church Cove)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You come in to Perconger past the rock that looks like Queen
>>>>>> Victoria's
>>>>>> old age profile, between the sometimes islands and go to the
>>>>>> quay on the west side of the porth
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When there's a bar, and there is something of one for much of
>>>>>> the day, it is due south and you can sit and look at it on a
>>>>>> bench on the quay, where I sat writing en plein
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Geologically Scilly is related to Cornwall, mostly granite and
>>>>>> in some places littered with erratics from the big glaciers
>>>>>> which didn't quite make it that far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Speak of The Variscan Orogeny if you want to sound
>>>>>> knowledgeable, a geologic mountain-building event caused by Late
>>>>>> Paleozoic
>>>>>> continental collision between Euramerica (Laurussia) and
>>>>>> Gondwana to
>>>>>> form the supercontinent of Pangaea. Unquote. I just looked it up
>>>>>> because I couldnt remember when it was. Times blur as you get
>>>>>> old. Laurussia was
>>>>>> of course named after me; where I lived in those days; but I
>>>>>> missed most of mountain-building because of writing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's pretty poor as mountains go, these days, but there is a
>>>>>> noticeable granite spine, here and there from Devon westwards --
>>>>>> no distance in N American or Australian terms, but it sometimes
>>>>>> defeats First Great
>>>>>> Western
>>>>>> Railway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The granite goes under the sea between Lands End and Scilly, so
>>>>>> tough do-do to all those who expect to see Merlin floating in
>>>>>> on a leaf, and forget all the stories of a hundred and forty
>>>>>> churches and the city of Lions drowned
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Almost everything I have written about, in what you have seen
>>>>>> here --
>>>>>> apart from the 575s a while back, which were from when I lived
>>>>>> in Cornwall
>>>>>> -- relates to places within a mile of each other on Agnes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right then. That'll teach you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is an ancient mariner
>>>>>> He stoppeth one of three
>>>>>> The other two go on ahead
>>>>>> He stoppeth only me
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Frank Muir)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am though happy to speak of this all day and night should you
>>>>>> consent
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> best
>>>>>>
>>>>>> L
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, May 19, 2012 07:57, Chris Jones wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hesitate to say this, but, I am finding these very English
>>>>>>> in a good way, or perhaps a way I like. I haven't seen this
>>>>>>> coast but find myself wanting to go... is this south west
>>>>>>> coast?? Maybe, I could make it there, but not now. But I
>>>>>>> searched and found some photos.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 19/05/12 04:32, Lawrence Upton wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The bulky slip for the revenuer's boat,
>>>>>>>> here still, unused for its purpose now, steep, with a more
>>>>>>>> salubrious paved landing place out to the left, a boat on
>>>>>>>> there, angled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An extensive tumble of rock, weed-blackened,
>>>>>>>> up to the height of another boat, on grass, upon a trolley,
>>>>>>>> an inflatable, and then there's overgrowth of dense bramble
>>>>>>>> right to the top of what is visible here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A concrete quay, atop and round the old,
>>>>>>>> white markings for hoi polloi; and steel posts for chains to
>>>>>>>> control crowds; parcels; packets to be collected; plastic
>>>>>>>> sheets and sacks of various forms; all most tidily clean in
>>>>>>>> a way suggesting work's getting done and life is being lived
>>>>>>>> with good effort.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A slightly rippling sea through burnishing light,
>>>>>>>> scatterings of markers upon its moving shine, tethered
>>>>>>>> rowing boats in scintillation up to the shrinking tombolo.
>>>>>>>> Columns of
>>>>>>>> Scilly
>>>>>>>> Whites near to The Gugh coast edge, cultivated plots
>>>>>>>> outweighted by noise from others which have self-planted for
>>>>>>>> years of being untended, unstraightened, left.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [Scilly Whites are a type of daffodil]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>> Lawrence Upton
>>>>>>>> Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
>>>>>>>> Goldsmiths, University of London
>>>>>>>> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
>>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> Lawrence Upton
>>>>>> Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
>>>>>> Goldsmiths, University of London
>>>>>> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>> Lawrence Upton
>>>>>> Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
>>>>>> Goldsmiths, University of London
>>>>>> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Douglas Barbour
>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
>>>>> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Latest books:
>>>>> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy)
>>>>> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962
>>>>> Wednesdays'
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-from-aboveground-p
>>>> ress _10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> .html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The postliterate sensibility is offended by anything that isn’t
>>>>> television, views with suspicion the compound sentence, the
>>>>> subordinate clause, words of more than three syllables. The home
>>>>> and studio audiences become accustomed to hearing voices swept
>>>>> clean of improvised literary devices, downsized into data points,
>>>>> degraded into industrial-waste product.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lewis Lapham
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Lawrence Upton
>>>> Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
>>>> Goldsmiths, University of London
>>>> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Lawrence Upton
>> Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
>> Goldsmiths, University of London
>> New Cross, London SE14 6NW
>> ----
>>
>>
>
-----
Lawrence Upton
Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
Goldsmiths, University of London
New Cross, London SE14 6NW
----
Cornwall is not England whatever the English say. Scilly is.
-----
Lawrence Upton
Visiting Fellow, Music Dept,
Goldsmiths, University of London
New Cross, London SE14 6NW
----
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