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OCC-HEALTH  May 2012

OCC-HEALTH May 2012

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Subject:

Re: Refusing to See Someone

From:

Dawn Veal <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Occupational Health mailing list <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 3 May 2012 13:59:16 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (400 lines)

Sharon,

What springs to mind is that this person had a clear idea of what he
wanted and he sees it that you intervened and took what he wanted
away.

This is typical for OH that you won't please everyone. Either manager
or employee happy but rarely both. You have offered sound and sensible
advice and as you rightly state have been poorly treated. I can
understand your view.

I would also say that the manager has a lot to answer for as the man
must have been told you had given the advice. Actually the person he
should be upset with is his manager as he made the decision not you.
the manager has used you as the scape goat.

Don't take it to heart , but it is easy to....

Its a bad day and eventually ( seems like never though) it will pass
and somthing more positive will happen that will restore your faith in
people.

Dawnx

On 5/3/12, Susan Gorton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I think we've all been there at some point. I find that the more rude
> someone gets the more polite I get and it does sound like you tried this
> stance first. You are entitled to your feelings on the matter but keeping
> them to yourself won't change that person's behaviour.
>
> I would give it one go to ensure that you have walked the walk on being
> assertive and standing up for yourself and communicate with him either
> directly or through the manager saying
>
> What he did....
>
> and when he did....
>
> he made me feel/as a result ...
>
> and I would prefer that he ... (jumped off the nearest bridge is one
> possible answer but I think you might come up with another!)
>
> The point being you are entitled to respect and a complaint by you is
> necessary if you are to at least help him understand the impact of his
> inappropriate behaviour. In most similar circumstances a grievance would be
> appropriate and may still be.
>
> I had to provisionally ban a student nurse from this department because of
> her bullying behaviour to the professional staff here ( and god help us when
> she got onto the wards) and I complained to her faculty adviser to say this
> was unacceptable and disappointing behaviour in an emerging professional
> (you can substitute colleague) and left it to them to meet with her to
> discuss the inappropriate behaviour. I summed it up by saying:
>
> I believe that this person requires some specific feedback on their actions
> and behaviour. As of this moment, I do not believe it will be appropriate
> for OH to take any further actions or to hold any further appointments with
> them until we can be reassured about their future behaviour.
>
> So his manager should be the one that talks to him and then if you get an
> apology you could possibly see them and if he won't then don't.
>
> Cheers
> Sue
> Susan Gorton | OH Nurse Manager | Occupational Health Department | Great
> Ormond Street Hospital NHS Foundation Trust | Level 3, Ormond House, 26-27
> Boswell St., London WC1N 3JZ |020 7405 9200 Ext 0247 | DD to OHD 020
> 78138554 | Direct Fax 020 78138355 | Mobile 07833294568
> Please be advised that all e-mail communication relevant to assisting in the
> management of the OH process will be printed and entered into the
> individual's OH file or copied and added as an electronic note on their
> electronic OH record. This may therefore be disclosed under the Data
> Protection Act (1998).
>
>
> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of joan
> Sent: 03 May 2012 11:22
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Refusing to See Someone
>
> Sharon,
>
> usually when I am struggling to cope with a similar situation (and there
> have been many), and think it is only me that is being targeted by client
> behaviour..rudeness or whatever, it later transpires that I am not the only
> staff/family member struggling with this client.
>
> And when I peel myself from the ceiling (where I spend sometime, for
> personal reasons also)...I then find I have in me the strength to get on
> with it, but with a different perspective, I am then annoyed with myself for
> not having that perspective in the first place as I had travelled similar
> paths before.
>
> You give sensible advice on a daily basis on this site (Thank You) and I
> believe whatever your decision it will be fair.
>
> Joan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Naylor, Sharon [HMPS]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Refusing to See Someone
>
> Actually I am more of a disgruntled shuffle now....
>
> ________________________________
> From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]>
> On Behalf Of Julia OReilly
> Sent: 03 May 2012 10:41
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Refusing to See Someone
> 'hopping mad' !!!! is that not the unofficial OHA title, sorry no, my
> mistake it's the 'frustrated and kept in the dark' title I'm thinking of.
>
> Why do we do this again??
>
> Thanks,  Julia
> ________________________________
> From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]>
> On Behalf Of Naylor, Sharon [HMPS]
> Sent: 03 May 2012 10:06
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Refusing to See Someone
>
> Absolutely - and I am grateful for them. Difficult to think straight when
> hopping mad.....
>
> ________________________________
> From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]>
> On Behalf Of Julia OReilly
> Sent: 03 May 2012 08:52
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Refusing to See Someone
> Hi Sharon
>
> You are absolutely entitled to handle this issue in whatever way you see
> fit, however you did ask for viewpoints!!!
>
> Thanks,  Julia
> ________________________________
> From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]>
> On Behalf Of sharon naylor
> Sent: 03 May 2012 08:51
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Refusing to See Someone
>
> I have had thoughts along these lines, but have decided to ignore them to be
> honest. Maybe not exceptionally professional but honest. I can cope with
> rows, being griped at etc but this was blatent rudeness from someone I have
> bever met and didnt even know the query was about him. He gets 6 months on
> full pay if sick, he has never been off in over 20 years of service, I was
> polite to the extreme when replying to the initial query - and also pointed
> out thatt this was a management/HR issue .
>
> In a previous life I may have sat down with him and explored his feelings of
> hostility, maybe even done a stress RA and referred him for CBT or something
> similar. However - no apology no appointment in this case, enough is enough.
> I am aware that rudeness/aggression is not tolerated within the NHS eg A&E
> depts, my own GP has a notice up saying "if you are rude to staff you wont
> get seen". Not sure why it should be any different in OH........
> ________________________________
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 08:41:40 +0100
> From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Refusing to See Someone
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> Hi Sharon,
>
> I thought I would play devil's advocate here. While the individual had
> absolutely no right to be rude to you, he may have been in pain or worried
> about the effect his surgery may have and whether it would go well or (as
> happened) there would be complications. There may have been financial
> concerns? I have come across some disgruntled clients who think I am a
> she-devil for not pandering to their cause but I have still carried out
> assessments on them as I see this as part of my role. I work on the
> principle that I am not here to win a popularity contest and I often have to
> grit my teeth and pray that my professionalism will overcome my personal
> thoughts on these individuals!
>
> Would there be an incurred cost if he was referred outside the organisation?
> This may be a concern.
>
> I suspect that, as Janet stated, he may well eat "humble pie". If not, you
> have the opportunity to tell him how inappropriate his behaviour was and
> take it from there.
>
>
>
> Rita E.Ogden
>
> Lead Occupational Health Specialist Practitioner
>
> Occupational Health Service
>
> Appleton Building Room A202
>
> Bradford College
>
> Tumbling Hill Street
>
> Bradford BD7 1DB
>
> Tel: 01274 433259
>
> Work Mobile: 07867782411
>
>
>
> From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]>
> On Behalf Of sharon naylor
> Sent: 02 May 2012 19:13
> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Refusing to See Someone
>
>
>
> Would be ineterested in viewpoints re the following scenario:
>
> I was asked a hypothetical situation about someone who wanted to take leave
> to account for absence following a routine op rather than take sickness
> absence. Doubtless fuelled by a robust management approach to absence at the
> mo, however the person concerned had a good absence hsitory so theoretically
> shouldnt have had concerns, works in a physically demanding role and
> anticipated that 2 weeks leave following an arthroscopy with possible
> further interevention while in the knee was ample time for recovery and a
> return to full duties. I replied by saying I didnt think it was a good idea
> from a clinical perspective, gave reasons why but that ultmately it was a
> management decision re whether to allow it. Please note that at this point
> it was no names, no pack drill, i was given a scenario to comment on.
>
> Cue a rather stroppy email from the gent in question (who incidentally I
> have never met) copied into all and sundry. I again explained the reasons
> why I had offered the advice, and that it was on the request of his manager.
> Cue an even more stroppy email, with further copyings ins telling me (eg)
> that I needed to "sort myself out" and that the unions "would be on my back"
> if I continued giving "stupid" advice, that he would be "taking this
> further" and calling me a variety of insults. I responded tactfully - and
> further stated that if he required further OH input his manager might like
> to refer him elsewhere as i wouldnt be seeing him. As anticipated - the op
> didnt go as planned, he has now been off 6 weeks and this has prompted a
> referral to OH.
>
> I am quite happy sticking to my guns and feel I am justified in not seeing
> him, I dont see why I should be expected to see someone who had been so rude
> and offensive - however, I have no policy/procedure to back up my decision.
> His managers are concerned about his case, and are insisting that he is
> seen. So far my answer is still "Not a chance"............comments?
>
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