Hi David,
Good point. I appreciate the discouragement of oppressive discourses on this list, and the questionning/ critique of what is and is not oppressive . So I suppose it depneds on which voices / discourses are silenced. I would not like to think that on this list some discourses were systematically silenced because those who might introduce them have less access to certain resouces. For instance, I sometimes wonder if it's hard for people who are not professional or academic psychologists with high status roles and access to professional journals etc to join in. I certainly feel sometimes that my academic/ intellectual rigour doues not measure up. But there are lots of ways of joining in, as others have pointed out, and a shared cutlure of robust challenge But I think that the foucs on critwue and ideas, while I value it, also makes it hard to be emotional here. I belong to a womens' group where love and connectedness are the main discourses and they don't quite fit here! ( I remember, for example, being challenged for apparently always wanting a "group hug". )
I am not convinced that sharing info about the timing of political decisions on matters of grave concern, with suggestions that politicians migh be contacted, constitutes opporessive discourse? I hope not? We haven't looked here much at the role of social media ( tweeting etc) in the Arab spring. And Richard Dowden in Africa: Altered Sates, Ordinary MIracles talks about the transformational impact ( for the poor) of mobile phones . I wonder to what extent the uses of these new technologies are contributing to further surges in individualism and/ or to increasing connectivity between people and providing frameworks for resistance to opporession by large scale vested interests.
Finally, yesterday was the day on which the (what I regard as shameful) Health and Social Care Bill succesfully completed its rocky journey through the UK parliament. - We think it's not quite as bad as it might have been without sustained political, professional and peoples' resistance, but still pretty bad. I guess it wasn't entirely a coincidence that the day was notable on this list with an unusually rich creative flurry of varoius strands of discussion , agreement and disagreement. I am thankful that there are places, this list among them, where we can resist.
Annie
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From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Fryer [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 20 March 2012 08:54
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Come back King Canute
Dear Annie,
I take it that you position "the silencing of some voices on this list" as undesirable? I do not. To elaborate . . . you acknowledge that "the critique is of ideas, not personal" (thank you for that) . . . in the same sense I do not regard the "silencing of some voices" as personal in the sense of being about rendering the voices of some persons inaudible but as about working to exclude oppressive discourses being relayed into the list. This is not so radical . . . I think (hope) that all members of this list wish to exclude antisemitic, racist, heterosexist etc discourses from being relayed into this list. As this is a community psychology discussion list I would also be pleased if we had a discussion space free of discourses inconsistent with community psychology . . . amongst those discourses I include discourses which position the psychological states of unitary individual subjects in interaction as central to political action / progressive social change but I also include discourses reinscribing the medical model of disability; bio-psycho-social discourses; cisgenderist discourses; positive psychology discourses; etc etc.
Regarding agency: in my work I have increasingly regarded what I consider to be a modernist distinction between agency and structure as problematic because it reinscribes the 'individual agent' which I am trying to leave behind. What I like about a number of critical approaches is that they offer at least a glimmer of hope that we can understand how people are at one and the same time subjectively (re)constituted through dynamic interconnections of societal phenomena (in Foucauldian terms 'dispositifs') and at that very same time interconnections of constituting social phenomena (dispositifs) are enacted into being by people in process of subjective (re)constitution. Here there seem to me ways to get beyond the agency-structure impasse and accordingly, rather than thinking in terms of agency, I think in terms of resistance but whereas agency is usually positioned as something exhibited by an individual, resistance (for me) is exhibited by discourse (or rather a dispositif).
To bring the two issues together, in my contributions to this list (and elsewhere) I attempt to be a relay for subjugated discourses and dispositifs of resistance and the silencing of ideologically problematic dominant discourses
David
From: Annie Mitchell <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 March 2012, 0:21
Subject: Re: Come back King Canute
Hi David,
I anticipated there would be criticism of my posting an invitation from a woman doctor, who was putting energy into campaigning via MPs, and inviting others to consider doing the same. And there was!
Unfortunately that sense that there are right and wrong postings contributes to a silencing of some voices on this list .
The debate is useful though: and the critique is of ideas, not personal.
I remember you usefully discussing the notion of agency: where does that fit into the critical point about "...dominant acritical discourse which positions the psychological states of unitary individual subjects in interaction as central to political action"? And isn't sharing our unitary individual actions ( as well as our colklective actions) ... and debating them... as well as integrating into them our critical theories about what makes the social world function..part of making our actions even more collective/ social? Our forwarding of posts and all the other actions we are all taking etc etc etc aren't individual actions on our parts: they are shaped by our immersion in various collectivitities, virtual and actual, all shaped by powers - powers to allow and disallow etc etc.
Annie
________________________________
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of David Fryer [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: 18 March 2012 11:27
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Come back King Canute
Hi Annie,
We have known each other for many years and been friends and colleagues for most of that time so I feel hopeful I can press you on some points without seeming aggressive.
This is a community psychology discussion list so I assume people read and post here when they want to engage in community psychology discussion. After all there are lots of forums (most) where reproduction of ‘common sense’ i.e. reproduction of an acritical dominant discourse would not be challenged: personal blogs; Facebook; discussion lists for those wanting to engage in clinical /counselling and other psy complex discussion etc. I am a member of this community psychology discussion list because I understand it to be an appropriate place for community psychology discussion.
In your message you add accounts of other actions you have been taken in addition to the twitter issue but I think it is worth sustained attention to the tweeting MPs issue (or as it has become sending messages to an MP by means) before moving on.
In your message you position your honesty, your MP’s ambivalence and ambition to be re-elected and effective interpersonal communication between individuals as key i.e. your post is a relay for a dominant acritical discourse which positions the psychological states of unitary individual subjects in interaction as central to political action. Since Rose’s work the problematic role of the psy-complex in governmentality has been problematic, at least as far as I am concerned and since Henriques, Hollway, Urwin, Venn and Walkerdine published Changing the Subject: Psychology, Social Regulation and Subjectivity I think it is clear the notion of the unitary subject is problematic.
In your work as a community psychologist I know you do not approach complex issues of depowerment and oppressive knowledges in terms of the psychological states of unitary subjects in interaction . . . your engagement with Playback and Greenroots and other sites of collective conscientization and resistance are examples of not doing. So I am puzzled why you relay problematic common sense discourses in relation to tackling oppressive reactionary assaults on collective assets like the health service in a community psychology discussion list?
On your last point is collusive acritical silence solidarity? I do not think so. Is the questioning of acritical orthodoxy on a c p discussion list disloyalty? I do not think so.
David
________________________________
From: Annie Mitchell <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, 18 March 2012, 4:11
Subject: Re: Come back King Canute
To be honest David I do think that contacting my conservative MP was worth doing. She is in a very marginal constituency, and I have talked to her about this and other issues and I have reason to believe that she ( and her neighbouring MP Sarah Woolaston, a GP) are ambivant about the Bill. . In response to my most recent message to her she rang me and asked me to compose a message to forward to the minister. And I had a detailed respose from her again. These people need to know that they will lose votes over this.
None of us is so naive as to think that tweeting in itself produces change. But I - and others who are putting huge efforts into the No to the Bill campaigns - hope that the use of social media etc can and does make a difference, along with all the other things we can do. For myself, as well as contacting my MP I have asked the BPS to register our position with the prime minister ( it now has), co-formed a south west group of Keep our NHS PUblic, had a letter to our local press headlined with a supportive editorial, , run an workshop with, and written an article for the newsletter of, our local Occupy movement, organised a Playback performance on Save our NHS ( with forthcoming - we hope - press coverage), as well as forwarded petitions and sent money to 38 degrees; gone on strike and marched over public sector pay.. . I want to believe that I live in a world in which our voices, if we speak up together - are heard. I know that flies in the face of much evidence, but I want to carry on acting as if we can make change happen, in the ways that we can. And to share with others ideas about what might be the most effective actions.
I know none of this will change the world, but I do want ( even need) to feel that there is cameraderie and solidarity in us all doing what is open to us to do in the face of the awful regressive social change going on around us. And - call me naive here - I look for that solidarity in my community psychology brethren - or sisterhood - - but don't - much - find it .
Annie
________________________________
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of David Fryer [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>]
Sent: 17 March 2012 12:14
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Come back King Canute
So quite a few list members think tweeting (or otherwise contacting) Tory MPs will prevent Mr Cameron and his MPs dismantling the hard won gains since 1945 of working people to achieve: health care at the time of need irrespective of having enough money to pay; decent affordable public housing; effective affordable public transport; public spaces for public use; high quality education for all; freedom to assemble, collective bargaining etc. But that is what the right does! Tweeting Tory MPs to ask them to stop dismantling socialist achievements and stop privatising public assets is like chickens tweeting foxes to ask them to change their ways. Cathy McCormack has described what is and has been happening to her community and thousands of communities like it . . . wave after wave of right wing welfare damaging policies resulting in inequality, unemployment, sickness inducing housing, homelessness, etc etc. resulting in incalculable misery, morbidity and mortality. Now the right wants to close down the first aid stations too. Surprise, surprise! The G8 meeting has been moved to Camp David to avoid even street demonstrations by voters at their leaders' behaviour. Private tweeting as effective pressure?
How has the expression of incredulity that a million people, including people on this list, think tweeting Tory MPs is worth doing, surprise that their way of viewing the world and their place in it positions this sort of activity as a form of effective political action and the question as to how so many have been rendered compliant been received on this list? By positioning it as: maligning 'honorable' and 'admirable' activity; arrogantly positioning a million people as 'stupid'; deflating; bringing down inspiration; being dismissive;undermining the 'feeling of ' free speech; sowing pessimism, desperation and negativity;burying 'really useful stuff'; 'death making'; trying to dominate and 'be supreme' on the list.
David
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From: "Taggart, Danny" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2012, 19:50
Subject: Re: Come back King Canute
Thanks for posting this statement Richard I hadn’t seen it before. Interesting statement, the leap from identifying mental health as being heavily influenced by social and economic factors and then suggesting that this means the government should invest in mental health services seems extraordinarily self-interested while missing the (rather obvious?) point entirely. It reminds me of a time about ten years ago in Belfast when the Police responded to a spate of fire bombings by loyalist paramilitaries by handing local residents fire blankets.
In terms of to tweet or not to tweet; I have been writing to MPs, Lords, local councillors among others diligently like many on this list I imagine. I think it is an honourable thing to do and I admire these forms of activism in other people. I fear however that it will not make any difference and I do not do it because I believe I will be listened to. I certainly do not do it because of any faith in our parliamentary democracy or because I think it will change the behaviour of politicians.
Gramsci’s line about pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the spirit comes to mind.
Danny
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>] On Behalf Of richard pemberton
Sent: 14 March 2012 09:28
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Come back King Canute
I agree Abdullah. It reminds me of Social Role Valorization narratives. You were just supposed to agree that the world is going to hell in a wheelbarrow and that social devaluation rules ok. All very catholic, despairing and self fulfilling. All the important and really useful stuff got buried by negativity and 'death making'.
Foucalt=Wolfensberger in this regard?
I just came across this statement which was issued by the Professional Practice Board in 2009. I don't remember any discussion about it. I wonder what assertive action we have taken?
Richard Pemberton
Psychological well-being and the economic crisis
In the light of the very difficult economic situation facing the United Kingdom for the next few years, assertive action must be taken to protect individuals’ mental health and the well- being of communities. Mental health is significantly dependent on social and economic circumstances, and therefore the present economic situation implies a direct threat to our mental health and psychological well-being. In addition, pressures on communities increase during economic recessions – particularly if social and financial inequalities are permitted to increase. Finally, people with mental health problems are among the most vulnerable in society, and therefore may be the most at threat from cuts in public spending on health and social services. In response to the current economic crisis, therefore, the British Psychological Society recommends that continued investment in mental health services should remain a priority for Government. Investment, in particular, in services for children and young people, as well as preventative and early intervention services should remain a priority. We also note, however, that services which are planned and commissioned on the basis of need and functional outcome, services that integrate multi-agency provision, and services that invest in high-quality, evidence-based, psychological therapies are likely to be most cost effective. We therefore recommend that the policy initiatives reflected in the
New Ways of Working, New Horizons and Improving Access to Psychological Therapies programmes should be continued, as such approaches to service architecture are likely to prove both effective and cost-effective.
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 7:58 AM, Abdullah Mia <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>> wrote:
I hope all are well, having read through the comments and response it does leave me feeling somewhat deflated and uninspired at times.
I'm all for good academic debate, particularly when it really challenges the patterns that I have got into but I do wonder if at times the task of this list sometimes gets lost (assuming I actually ever knew what this listserv was for!). At times it feels and reads like the task of the listserv is to critically deconstruct other peoples opinions to the point of ensuring that the person who can critique and deconstruct the most is 'the best' (in my opinion, sometimes to the point of being dismissive). I think Bion would have a field day.
I like the fact that a large number of people are tweeting about the topic, I don't tweet myself, but its how people are now increasingly communicating. I wonder if our time, thoughts, experience and expertise could be better used in thinking how this could be galvanised into a(nother) form of effective action. I like and agree with Penny's idea that it may provide the energy or group solidarity for further action. I hope it does, and I hope we as a group can also think about how we can use this to advance a collective view that we disagree with the H&SC Bill.
Obviously, everyone is welcome to deconstruct and critique what I've written as much as they like! :-) haha
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___________________________________ There is a twitter feed: http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK (to post contact Grant [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this COMMUNITYPSYCHUK list, visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
___________________________________ There is a twitter feed: http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK (to post contact Grant [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this COMMUNITYPSYCHUK list, visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
___________________________________ There is a twitter feed: http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK (to post contact Grant [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this COMMUNITYPSYCHUK list, visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
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There is a twitter feed: http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK (to post contact Grant [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
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To unsubscribe or to change your details on this COMMUNITYPSYCHUK list, visit the website:
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