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Subject:

Re: ASSISTECH Digest - 18 Mar 2012 to 19 Mar 2012 (#2012-34)

From:

"Judge Simon (BARNSLEY HOSPITAL NHS FOUNDATION TRUST)" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

A discussion list for Assistive Technology professionals.

Date:

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 21:38:04 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (976 lines)

Dear all,

Thanks for the interesting conversation on this and seemingly confirming my guess that there was no real alternative on the market currently.  Good to know the inflatable rig is still available too, we had been told it wasn't.  Maybe nightmare wasn't the best word, but I would suggest that although it is probably the most portable rig I've seen, there are still significant moving/handling considerations with it (bear in mind we work in the community so have to transport it every time we use it).

I did find this Hdti project listed [1] on FAST but couldn't find other information. Maybe someone from HdTI would be able to update the list with their current thoughts/findings.

Anyway, thanks again for the information/discussion.

Cheers

Simon

[1] http://www.fastuk.org/research/projview.php?id=1675

-----Original Message-----
From: A discussion list for Assistive Technology professionals. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Broadhurst, Mike
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:09 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ASSISTECH Digest - 18 Mar 2012 to 19 Mar 2012 (#2012-34)

I agree with John that stability testing in the clinical environment would benefit from a critical review.  In our region we are testing to ensure that the addition of equipment such as conmmunication aids, ventilators and non-standard seating does not reduce static stability to an unsafe level.  We use guideline angles of 12 degrees for attendant controlled chairs and 16 degrees for powered and self-propelling chairs.  The relationship between static and dynamic stability is not well understood but these static test angles are thought to provide a reasonable margin.  It is not feasible to directly assess dynamic stability in the clinical environment.

For active users who require 'unstable' chairs, static stability testing is of limited use - the chair is set up to match the ability and demands of the individual user.

The perceived benefit of the weighing approach over the inclined ramp is that the former generates an actual angle of stabilty which in theory could be used to predict dynamic stabilty.  The problem has been in producing a rig which is easy to set up but is portable and affordable.  The weighing approach also uses a smaller tilt angle so carries less potential risk than the inclined ramp.

One possible benefit of the inclined ramp is that it induces natural bodily movement during tilting and therefore mimics real life situations more closely.

Regards
Mike Broadhurst

mailto:[log in to unmask]
Michael Broadhurst
Technical Aid Service Manager
Regional Medical Physics Department
Building 15
Campus for Ageing and Vitality (Newcastle General Hospital) Newcastle upon Tyne
NE4 6BE

Tel: 0191 233 6161 ext 22192
Fax: 0191 256 3124

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient please delete this e-mail and any attachments immediately and notify the sender.  The views expressed by the sender may not be the views of the Regional Medical Physics Department.

Please note that any email correspondence identifying clients will be filed in the client record.



________________________________

From: A discussion list for Assistive Technology professionals. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Tiernan
Sent: 20 March 2012 10:46
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ASSISTECH Digest - 18 Mar 2012 to 19 Mar 2012 (#2012-34)



Simon,



We have the WMRC system. We got it in 2006. They provide training in its use, but be aware that while 'portable', it is - as described below - "fairly heavy, and a little bulky", i.e. I don't think you would get it into the back of a Smart Car! Also, as it is based on 4x force plate sensors, I don't think it can be used to test of mid-wheel drive powered wheelchairs as easily as your current system.



This discussion does throw up the whole question of what we are testing for, i.e. active users may wish to have their chair 'unstable' i.e. easy to tip rearwards to facilitate mounting kerbs, and it would be great to have a best practice guideline covering clinical practice in this area.



Kind regards,

John





John Tiernan BE(Hons) MEngSc MIEI,

Chartered Engineer,

Senior Clinical Engineer,

SeatTech,

Enable Ireland,

Sandymount Avenue,

Dublin 4,

Ireland.



Tel. +353 1 2615926/2615900

Fax. +353 1 2695816

www.enableireland.ie





This email is classified as internal to Enable Ireland and should not be forwarded without the permission of the sender









-----Original Message-----
From: A discussion list for Assistive Technology professionals. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ASSISTECH automatic digest system
Sent: 20 March 2012 00:02
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ASSISTECH Digest - 18 Mar 2012 to 19 Mar 2012 (#2012-34)



There are 6 messages totaling 1930 lines in this issue.



Topics of the day:



  1. Tilt Testing Rigs (4)

  2. hello

  3. Please ignore previous email allegedly from me



----------------------------------------------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:35:50 +0000

From:    Tim Wilson <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: Tilt Testing Rigs



Hi Simon,

No you didn't "dream" it as I saw it too, but I can't remember exactly who it was that presented it. I think it was in fact a research project as you say and have an esteemed colleague called Mr Swann searching his "records" as he seems to remember seeing this from when he was going through the tilt testing procedure for "Bugzi" I will get back to you once I have asked some old colleagues about it, as I do remember discussing its merits with them

 Tim



Tim Wilson FRSA IPEM BSc (Hons)

Design Engineer



MERU, Unit 2 Eclipse Estate, 30 West Hill, Epsom, Surrey, KT19 8JD, UK

+44 (0)1372 725 203  |  [log in to unmask]  |
+www.meru.org.uk<http://www.meru.org.uk>



Registered Charity No 269804

Company No 1214125



Follow MERU on Facebook<http://en-gb.facebook.com/MERUcharity>

________________________________

From: A discussion list for Assistive Technology professionals. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Judge Simon (BARNSLEY HOSPITAL NHS FOUNDATION TRUST)

Sent: 16 March 2012 16:33

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Tilt Testing Rigs



Dear all,



We have an 'inflatable' tilt test rig (from Newcastle, but no longer manufactured) that we use that is moderately->not very portable (though it does fit, just, into the boot of our colleague's smart car!). It is, certainly, a lifting and handling nightmare though.



I have seen somewhere, maybe at RAATE (and maybe from Birmingham?), a non-physical rig (i.e. that doesn't actually tilt and is based on weight distribution/accelerometers?) - I assume such a rig would be much more portable.  Admittedly this may have been in my head, and was probably research, not commercially available.



Anyone have any ideas about this - is there anything like this available, if so from who?



Have a nice weekend all.





Cheers,



Simon



Senior Clinical Scientist

Assistive Technology Team



[log in to unmask]

01226 432159



www.barnsleyhospital.nhs.uk/at



Dept of Medical Physics

Block 14

Barnsley District General Hospital Foundation Trust Gawber Road Barnsley

S75 2EP





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------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:39:27 -0000

From:    "Broadhurst, Mike" <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: Tilt Testing Rigs



Hi Simon



The tilt testing ramp developed at Newcastle which you refer to is still

available from BML Manufacturing tel 0161 3666883.  We use them

extensively throughtout the Techncial Aid Service and the regional

wheelchair services and would dispute your 'nightmare' description.  The

ramp lifting capacity is 257kg and has a platform area suitable for a

typical indoor/outdoor powered wheelchair, so there are physical limits

to the compactness achievable.



I believe Coventry University may be developing a weighing type rig.  We

have explored a similar idea in the past but a small amount of active

tilt was still required to cause a measurable shift in the position of

the centre of mass.



It is possible that a weighing type rig might be more portable than the

single platform design but at present there is nothing commercially

available, as far as I know.



Regards

Mike Broadhurst



mailto:[log in to unmask]

Michael Broadhurst

Technical Aid Service Manager

Regional Medical Physics Department

Building 15

Campus for Ageing and Vitality (Newcastle General Hospital)

Newcastle upon Tyne

NE4 6BE



Tel: 0191 233 6161 ext 22192

Fax: 0191 256 3124



This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and

intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are

addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient please delete this

e-mail and any attachments immediately and notify the sender.  The views

expressed by the sender may not be the views of the Regional Medical

Physics Department.



Please note that any email correspondence identifying clients will be

filed in the client record.







________________________________



From: A discussion list for Assistive Technology professionals.

[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Judge Simon (BARNSLEY

HOSPITAL NHS FOUNDATION TRUST)

Sent: 16 March 2012 16:33

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Tilt Testing Rigs





---

This message was sent from an email address external to NHSmail but

gives the appearance of being from an NHSmail (@[log in to unmask]) address. The

recipient should verify the sender and content before acting upon

information contained within.



The identified sender is [log in to unmask]

---

Dear all,



We have an 'inflatable' tilt test rig (from Newcastle, but no longer

manufactured) that we use that is moderately->not very portable (though

it does fit, just, into the boot of our colleague's smart car!). It is,

certainly, a lifting and handling nightmare though.



I have seen somewhere, maybe at RAATE (and maybe from Birmingham?), a

non-physical rig (i.e. that doesn't actually tilt and is based on weight

distribution/accelerometers?) - I assume such a rig would be much more

portable.  Admittedly this may have been in my head, and was probably

research, not commercially available.



Anyone have any ideas about this - is there anything like this

available, if so from who?



Have a nice weekend all.



Cheers,



Simon



Senior Clinical Scientist

Assistive Technology Team



[log in to unmask]

01226 432159



www.barnsleyhospital.nhs.uk/at



Dept of Medical Physics

Block 14

Barnsley District General Hospital Foundation Trust Gawber Road Barnsley

S75 2EP







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------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:47:02 +0000

From:    "Marsden Stuart (THE NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE HOSPITALS NHS FOUNDATION

         TRUST)" <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: Tilt Testing Rigs



Hi Simon,



I'm familiar with the inflatable testing rig and am pleasantly surprised that it fits into the boot of a Smart car. Does that mean it fits into any other car boot?!



I haven't seen any device that measures the tilt without actually tilting the chair. I would assume that such a device could measure load distribution at the wheel-ground contacts to estimate the location of the centre of gravity of the chair-plus-user, and then project this over the wheelbase to determine the angles of stable tilt.



It could easily be possible for this device to fit into a much smaller package than a typical tilting test rig, and it would likely be less discomfiting for the chair user, but I'd have reservations about its use. Primarily because the centre of gravity of the user itself moves when their chair is tilted and so it could have too much of an influence on what it is that you're interested in measuring. This is particularly true for those users with less control who might unintentionally be leant into the tilt.



I'm also curious to see if there's anything out there.



Best,



Stu



________________________________

From: A discussion list for Assistive Technology professionals. [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Broadhurst, Mike [[log in to unmask]]

Sent: 19 March 2012 08:39

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: Tilt Testing Rigs



Hi Simon



The tilt testing ramp developed at Newcastle which you refer to is still available from BML Manufacturing tel 0161 3666883.  We use them extensively throughtout the Techncial Aid Service and the regional wheelchair services and would dispute your 'nightmare' description.  The ramp lifting capacity is 257kg and has a platform area suitable for a typical indoor/outdoor powered wheelchair, so there are physical limits to the compactness achievable.



I believe Coventry University may be developing a weighing type rig.  We have explored a similar idea in the past but a small amount of active tilt was still required to cause a measurable shift in the position of the centre of mass.



It is possible that a weighing type rig might be more portable than the single platform design but at present there is nothing commercially available, as far as I know.



Regards

Mike Broadhurst



mailto:[log in to unmask]

Michael Broadhurst

Technical Aid Service Manager

Regional Medical Physics Department

Building 15

Campus for Ageing and Vitality (Newcastle General Hospital)

Newcastle upon Tyne

NE4 6BE



Tel: 0191 233 6161 ext 22192

Fax: 0191 256 3124



This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient please delete this e-mail and any attachments immediately and notify the sender.  The views expressed by the sender may not be the views of the Regional Medical Physics Department.



Please note that any email correspondence identifying clients will be filed in the client record.







________________________________

From: A discussion list for Assistive Technology professionals. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Judge Simon (BARNSLEY HOSPITAL NHS FOUNDATION TRUST)

Sent: 16 March 2012 16:33

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Tilt Testing Rigs





---

This message was sent from an email address external to NHSmail but gives the appearance of being from an NHSmail (@[log in to unmask]) address. The recipient should verify the sender and content before acting upon information contained within.



The identified sender is [log in to unmask]

---





Dear all,



We have an 'inflatable' tilt test rig (from Newcastle, but no longer manufactured) that we use that is moderately->not very portable (though it does fit, just, into the boot of our colleague's smart car!). It is, certainly, a lifting and handling nightmare though.



I have seen somewhere, maybe at RAATE (and maybe from Birmingham?), a non-physical rig (i.e. that doesn't actually tilt and is based on weight distribution/accelerometers?) - I assume such a rig would be much more portable.  Admittedly this may have been in my head, and was probably research, not commercially available.



Anyone have any ideas about this - is there anything like this available, if so from who?



Have a nice weekend all.





Cheers,



Simon



Senior Clinical Scientist

Assistive Technology Team



[log in to unmask]

01226 432159



www.barnsleyhospital.nhs.uk/at



Dept of Medical Physics

Block 14

Barnsley District General Hospital Foundation Trust Gawber Road Barnsley

S75 2EP





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sender that you have received the message in error before deleting it.

Please do not disclose, copy or distribute information in this e-mail or take any action in reliance on its contents:

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------------------------------



Date:    Mon, 19 Mar 2012 10:21:12 -0000

From:    Harbach Geoff <[log in to unmask]>

Subject: Re: Tilt Testing Rigs



Dear all.



West Midlands rehab Centre has a stability testing rig that only

requires about 50mm of tilt and uses force platforms to determine

centres of gravity.



Posture and Mobility Services at WMRC presented this at at least one

rate conference.



At one point I believe they were making them commercially available but

I do not know if this is still the case.



They were transportable but still fairly heavy, and a little bulky.





G.J.Harbach  I.Eng  MIED  IIPEM  ATPsoc

Registered Clinical Technologist

Rehabilitation Engineering Specialist

Department of Healthcare Science

West Midlands Rehabilitation Centre

91 Oak Tree Lane, Selly Oak.

Birmingham B29 6JA

Tel 0121 466 3066

[log in to unmask]

[log in to unmask]

www.actwmids.nhs.uk <http://www.actwmids.nhs.uk/>



Enable Ireland Disability Services Ltd.
Registered Office Unit 32F, Rosemount Park Drive, Rosemount Business Park, Ballycoolin Road, Dublin 11 Registered in Dublin No.13909 Charity No.4908 Chairman Donal Cashman Chief Executive\Secretary Fionnuala O'Donovan.

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