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CYCLING-AND-SOCIETY  February 2012

CYCLING-AND-SOCIETY February 2012

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Subject:

Re: A request for help[Scanned-Clean]

From:

John Meudell <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Cycling and Society Research Group discussion list <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 3 Feb 2012 10:05:54 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (225 lines)

Many years ago, after cycling in London for a couple of years, I took my
bike up to Aberdeen and went cycling with a mate, a keen cyclist.  After a
while he (helpfully) suggested that London cycling tactics didnít go down
well up there.  So know what you mean!  (I'd note Amsterdam has a somewhat
similar reputation.)

But, the point is that all too often, cycling in London and other big cities
requires a much more positive, even aggressive style of riding, in part
because if you don't then you'll never get on the road let alone get
anywhere, and in part to stay alive.  (Noting the comments that safe cycling
in London often involves breaking "the law" (not just in a legal sense))

Cheers

John



-----Original Message-----
From: Cycling and Society Research Group discussion list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Oddy, Nicholas
Sent: 03 February 2012 08:02
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: A request for help[Scanned-Clean]

Hmm, admittedly I've not cycled in London for a few years, but I do not
remember the culture being that much different from anywhere else in the UK.
Maybe you should meet a few couriers, they are a fairly visible part of
cycling culture down there and to suggest that they are not that because
'you do not hang about with them' places your position not as not unlike
like that of the worthy middle classes living in the west of your city in
the 19th century not acknowledging the existence of the masses in the east
on the grounds that the never need to see them. 
 
Nicholas Oddy 

________________________________

From: Cycling and Society Research Group discussion list on behalf of gary
cummins
Sent: Wed 01/02/2012 21:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: A request for help[Scanned-Clean]


Come on Nicholas, do you really believe that the active participants among
the 10,000 plus member of the London Cycling Campaign join, pay their £30
plus fee and spend weekends running stalls at civic events, volunteering at
repair workshops and leading recreational easy rides NOT to increase the
numbers cycling? 

In all my time living in and cycling around London I never encountered the
type you describe above. I did not hang about with couriers I admit, but my
fellow cyclists were really in for the transport, not a lifestyle or sport,
simply a way to get about.

Gary Cummins


________________________________

Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 20:58:24 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: A request for help[Scanned-Clean]
To: [log in to unmask]



What you have is the same problem that beset the high bicycle, fine when you
are on it, but it looks very dangerous...a long way to fall. There was no
solution, but the riders who were attracted to the machine did not really
want one. I'd suggest that many confident urban and A-road cyclists rather
enjoy their elite do-or-die status and are not that worried about increasing
the numbers.

 

Nicholas Oddy

 

From: Cycling and Society Research Group discussion list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Jones
Sent: 31 January 2012 10:46
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: A request for help[Scanned-Clean]

 

Dear Chris and all

Interesting use of the word 'objectively'. Subjective is 'real' enough to
the 'subjects'. Of course people on this list will step forward and state,
"that is really not my experience of cycling in London..." with implication
that folk really just ought to get over it and try cycling to overcome their
fears (and cycle training can help prepare for this!).

I read an interesting analogy by Blogger Cyclinginfo (an adept racing and
commuter cyclist) http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/ this morning paraphrasing
Michael Hutchinson writing in Cycling Weekly a couple of weeks ago: "Cycle
around Kings Cross, London, and you can feel like a Lancaster bomber on a
low flying mission across occupied Europe - trying to remain unmoved by all
the flack coming from every angle. It's not a surprise American and London
cyclists are the most likely to wear a helmet, fluorescent jacket et al. ,
even if the effect is purely psychological, you feel like you need some kind
of protection."

As our Understanding Walking and Cycling research based on extensive
in-depth research across four cities outside of London made clear, we are
kidding ourselves if we think that a democratic landscape of cycling will
emerge out of the current transport system without radical overhaul. The key
is to eradicate the war not to encourage the trembling troops to train to go
into battle.

Tim Jones

On 31 January 2012 10:00, Chris Peck <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

"This really is not my experience of cycling in London (UK), I'd suggest
London (UK) is one of the more benign areas to cycle in in Britain hence
some areas of the inner city with 10% modal share of cycling and rising.
Cycling on rural A4 roads in Britain outwith built up areas can be far more
intimidating."

... and objectively more risky as well:

* 313 deaths per billion kms cycled on rural A-roads last year. 

* 11 deaths per billion kms cycled on minor urban roads. 

(see:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/resources/Campaigns/1110_CTC_Transcom_RSS-con-final.pd
f, from RAS30018)

 

________________________________

From: Cycling and Society Research Group discussion list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of gary cummins
Sent: 31 January 2012 09:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: A request for help

 

John Meudell said:
 

On that particular point, I'd suggest making a clear distinction between the
UK and Europe.  My experience is that, if you can cycle confidently cycle
around London without getting intimidated, run off the road or killed, you
can survive anywhere!


 

This really is not my experience of cycling in London (UK), I'd suggest
London (UK) is one of the more benign areas to cycle in in Britain hence
some areas of the inner city with 10% modal share of cycling and rising.
Cycling on rural A4 roads in Britain outwith built up areas can be far more
intimidating.

Gary Cummins


________________________________________________________________________
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CTC Charitable Trust, CTC's charity arm, works to promote cycling by raising
public and political awareness of its health, social and environmental
benefits, and by working with all communities to help realise those
benefits.

To find out more, to join or support CTC visit www.ctc.org.uk
<http://www.ctc.org.uk/> , or phone 0844 736 8451.

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number 5125969. Registered as a charity in England and Wales number 1104324
and in Scotland number SCO38626

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________________________________________________________________________




-- 
Research Fellow
Oxford Institute for Sustainable Development
& Department of Planning
Faculty of Technology Design and Environment
Oxford Brookes University
Gipsy Lane Campus
Oxford  OX3 0BP
Tel +44 (0)1865 483436
[log in to unmask]
http://www.brookes.ac.uk/about/faculties/tde

EPSRC Understanding Walking and Cycling summary findings now available for
download:
http://radar.brookes.ac.uk/radar/items/17bb3ed2-1209-b3e9-5357-614f329af72e/
1/



Quote: ""A society which measures man's [sic] worth in terms of volume of
publications accumulated is no less sick than one which measures his worth
in terms of dollars amassed" (Stea 1969:1)."

 

Stea D (1969) Positions, purposes, pragmatics: A journal of radical
geography. Antipode 1(1):1-2

 

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