Oh, I meant to follow Jon's quoted poem with some words from Frank Zappa:
Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty.
Beauty is not love.
Love is not music.
Music is the best.
On 2/15/12 12:30 PM, Jon Phipps wrote:
> Are we only talking about Linked Data or are we talking about information
> modeling? DCAP is a documentation model for describing an information
> ecosystem and DCAM is its formal abstract 'domain' model, or should be.
> Whether or not that model results in Linked Data is beside the point, isn't
> it?
>
> Jon,
> who just found this and had to paste it here:
>
> Endless invention, endless experiment,
> Brings knowledge of motion, but not of stillness;
> Knowledge of speech, but not of silence;
> Knowledge of words, and ignorance of the Word...
>
> Where is the Life we have lost in living?
> Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
> Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?
> -- T. S. Eliot, Choruses from 'The Rock'
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Karen Coyle<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hmm. In terms of analogies, I would equate DCAP with a data dictionary,
>> not DCAM. To me a data dictionary is the actual metadata elements you will
>> use, not an abstract definition of the possible structures. DCAM seems to
>> be closer to the idea of "design patterns."
>>
>> I don't see how something can be linked data if it doesn't have certain
>> characteristics:
>> - http uris
>> - subjects, predicates, objects (whether serialized as triples or not, and
>> RDF/XML and turtle are examples of not)
>> - subjects and predicates constrained as URIs; objects constrained
>> differently (which DCAM would address)
>>
>> It's possible that the JSON examples in that blog post met these criteria
>> (I didn't perceive URIs for the predicates, but maybe I don't read JSON
>> well).
>>
>> kc
>>
>>
>> On 2/15/12 7:58 AM, Jon Phipps wrote:
>>
>>> Re: "Underneath it all you still have to have something that expresses
>>> valid triples, n'est pas?"
>>>
>>> Actually, my point here is that there are many data serializations, models
>>> and use cases for creating, validating, and distributing metadata and many
>>> of them don't include a notion of triples, (e.g. nosql) although many of
>>> them do include a notion of domain-specific validity and some form of
>>> distribution. RDF is extremely useful for distributing metadata in an Open
>>> World context, but it's hardly the only data model and hardly the only
>>> method of distributing useful metadata.
>>>
>>> We need to provide, or at least try to provide, a specification that makes
>>> it possible for an organization to describe how they expect the 'things'
>>> they know about to be described: which properties are valid or not, what
>>> constitutes valid data, and what does each property mean. In the old days,
>>> this model used to be called a 'data dictionary' and it's an incredibly
>>> useful concept in a world of distributed heterogeneous data. Providing a
>>> way for someone to create a single 'data dictionary' that can be used
>>> (preferably by a machine) to create validations for domain-specific data
>>> and that can be used by anyone (preferably a machine) in the organization,
>>> or alternatively in the world, to understand the meaning of that data
>>> across departmental, organizational, or national boundaries would be
>>> incredibly and fundamentally useful.
>>>
>>> If we say that RDF is the ONLY useful way to do this, then we might as
>>> well
>>> go back to "DCAM is just RDF".
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>> I check email just a couple of times daily; to reach me sooner, click
>>> here:
>>> http://awayfind.com/jonphipps
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Karen Coyle<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> What *does* seem to be core in this blog post is the use of http URIs for
>>>> values. I'd add to that: properties defined with http URIs, so you know
>>>> what you are describing. Although you can serialize all of this in JSON
>>>> if
>>>> you wish, it means that you have started with LD concepts, not the usual
>>>> JSON application. Underneath it all you still have to have something that
>>>> expresses valid triples, n'est pas?
>>>>
>>>> kc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/15/12 5:49 AM, Jon Phipps wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've been doing some wandering around in JSON land for the last few days
>>>>> and, as part of a continuing observation that RDF is an implementation
>>>>> detail rather than a core requirement, I'd like to point to this post
>>>>> from
>>>>> James Snell
>>>>> http://chmod777self.blogspot.****com/2012/02/mostly-linked-****
>>>>> data.html<http://chmod777self.**blogspot.com/2012/02/mostly-**
>>>>> linked-data.html<http://chmod777self.blogspot.com/2012/02/mostly-linked-data.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And the JSON Scema spec: http://json-schema.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> Jon,
>>>>> who may someday get his act together and pay attention to these meetings
>>>>> more than a couple of hours before the meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 14, 2012, Thomas Baker<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 05:25:17PM -0500, Tom Baker wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- that DCAM should be developed using a test-driven approach, with
>>>>>>> effective examples and test cases that can be expressed in various
>>>>>>> concrete syntaxes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jon suggested that we take Gordon's requirements for metadata record
>>>>>>
>>>>>> constructs
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] as a starting point. As I understand them, these are:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- the ability to encode multicomponent things (which in the
>>>>>> cataloging
>>>>>> world happen to be called "statements", as in "publication
>>>>>> statement"
>>>>>> and "classification statement") either:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- as unstructured strings, or
>>>>>> -- as strings structured according to a named Syntax Encoding
>>>>>> Scheme,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>> -- as Named Graphs with individual component triples
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- the ability to express the repeatability of components in such
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "statements"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -- the ability to designate properties as "mandatory", or "mandatory
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> applicable", and the like
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- the ability to constrain the cardinality of "subsets of properties"
>>>>>> within a particular context, such as the FRBR model
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- the ability to express mappings between properties in different
>>>>>>
>>>>>> namespaces.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> It has also been suggested that we find examples of real metadata
>>>>>> instance
>>>>>> records from different communities and contexts -- e.g., libraries,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> government,
>>>>>
>>>>> industry, and biomed -- for both testing and illustrating DCAM
>>>>>> constracts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/****cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind1202&L=****<https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/**cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind1202&L=**>
>>>>> dc-architecture&P=6405<https:/**/www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/**
>>>>> webadmin?A2=ind1202&L=dc-**architecture&P=6405<https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind1202&L=dc-architecture&P=6405>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Tom Baker<[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> Karen Coyle
>>>> [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
>>>> ph: 1-510-540-7596
>>>> m: 1-510-435-8234
>>>> skype: kcoylenet
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Karen Coyle
>> [log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
>> ph: 1-510-540-7596
>> m: 1-510-435-8234
>> skype: kcoylenet
>>
>
--
Karen Coyle
[log in to unmask] http://kcoyle.net
ph: 1-510-540-7596
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet
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