Can't you get a plug-in for that?
JPK
On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Dale Tronrud
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Unless you have written on the paper using cursive script. Many schools
> in the US have stopped teaching longhand reading/writing so in a generation
> or two many paper records will be undecipherable to all but historians. My
> wife has some handwritten letters from ancestors written in German around
> 1920 that even Germans have great trouble reading today.
>
> The paper is holding up quite well though. ;-)
>
> Dale Tronrud
>
> On 01/26/12 08:30, Phoebe Rice wrote:
>> As the proud owner of a carefully organized, highly annotated VMS backup tape (reel-to-reel, of course), my main concern is that paper is the only format that we'll be able to count on reading a decade (or more) from now.
>>
>> =====================================
>> Phoebe A. Rice
>> Dept. of Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
>> The University of Chicago
>> phone 773 834 1723
>> http://bmb.bsd.uchicago.edu/Faculty_and_Research/01_Faculty/01_Faculty_Alphabetically.php?faculty_id=123
>> http://www.rsc.org/shop/books/2008/9780854042722.asp
>>
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:50:04 +0100
>>> From: CCP4 bulletin board <[log in to unmask]> (on behalf of Anastassis Perrakis <[log in to unmask]>)
>>> Subject: Re: [ccp4bb] Introducing an ELN
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> I think that all these points are interesting and
>>> valid.
>>> On Jan 25, 2012, at 10:37, Chris Morris wrote:
>>>
>>> Tassos reports:
>>>
>>> 1. None of the twenty test-users was satisfied
>>> with any of the two
>>>
>>> solutions - and each was annoyed for a different
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> This suggests that the choice of ELN is not the
>>> most difficult part of the adoption process. Maybe
>>> the test users at the NKI were annoyed by the idea
>>> of using an ELN at all.
>>>
>>> That would surely apply to some users. Some were
>>> actually very keen, and thats why they signed up for
>>> it.
>>>
>>> In my experience, the hardest part is ensuring
>>> that it provides benefits to the people who have
>>> to enter the data, and provides them early. The
>>> fact that it will make information retrieval
>>> easier in three years is not enough.
>>>
>>> I suggest focussing on electronic support for
>>> housekeeping: booking time on an instrument,
>>> finding the files the instrument created, ordering
>>> oligos, recording when you use the last of a
>>> reagent. Scientists work very independently in
>>> most respects, but they do have certain
>>> obligations that flow from sharing the lab space.
>>> You can make use of these to encourage compliance
>>> with the ELN. If you do, then most of the science
>>> will get recorded in passing.
>>>
>>> I think that this was exactly one of the problems.
>>> The ELNs we tested had no option for booking
>>> instruments, no way to find files from instruments
>>> let alone read them (it would support only TIF,
>>> JPEG, Doc, XLS, PDF), and would not do stock
>>> keeping: all these are thought to be out of the ELN
>>> scope. And that makes an ELN inherently less useful.
>>> Lack of instrument support is another issue: a
>>> machine that would allow us to import real
>>> chromatograms to ELN would be cool - alas, the
>>> solution that was suggested to us is to save as PDF
>>> or XLS and reload ...! (it took 3 weeks to come back
>>> with this great plan!)
>>> For the rest I have nothing much to say, I basically
>>> agree.
>>> A.
>>>
>>> I suggest also ensuring that it includes
>>> electronic tools that actually help. Two examples
>>> from PiMS are primer design, and automatically
>>> uploading and interpreting results from the
>>> Caliper GX instrument.
>>>
>>> It must allow round trips with spreadsheets, i.e.
>>> dump ELN data as a spreadsheet, edit it, upload it
>>> again. Despite their substantial disadvantages,
>>> some scientists will not give them up. It should
>>> also allow crossreferencing with paper note books.
>>> Some will continue to use a lab notebook. When
>>> they discover that the ELN serves as a searchable
>>> index to it, they will warm to the ELN.
>>>
>>> I suggest aiming for "no paper" at your lab
>>> progress meetings within say 12 months. When you
>>> reach that point, everything important is in the
>>> ELN. Before then, the ELN is not giving real
>>> value.
>>>
>>> You will need someone who is keen on the
>>> introduction of the ELN, to customise it, provide
>>> first line user support, and act as a single point
>>> of contact with the supplier. This might be a
>>> scientist or an IT person. I have also seen this
>>> done well by a technician, Delphine Chesnel when
>>> she was at the EMBL Hamburg. If you can't find
>>> such a "champion", then introduction will not be
>>> successful.
>>>
>>> Some of the problem here is an "own goal" by the
>>> community: scientists are trained to use paper
>>> during their degrees, so ELNs are a controversial
>>> change of practice. One person who, unusually,
>>> began with an ELN told me how inconvenient it is
>>> now she works in a paper-based lab.
>>>
>>> PepTalk 2012 had a workshop on this topic. The
>>> recording and notes are here:
>>> http://www.structuralbiology.eu/support/forums/networks/pims/why-dont-scientists-use-limselns
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Chris
>>> ____________________________________________
>>> Chris Morris
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> Tel: +44 (0)1925 603689 Fax: +44 (0)1925 603634
>>> Mobile: 07921-717915
>>> Skype: chrishgmorris
>>> http://pims.structuralbiology.eu/
>>> http://www.citeulike.org/blog/chrishmorris
>>> Daresbury Lab, Daresbury, Warrington, UK, WA4
>>> 4AD
>>>
>>>
>>> P please don't print this e-mail unless you really
>>> need to
>>> Anastassis (Tassos) Perrakis, Principal Investigator
>>> / Staff Member
>>> Department of Biochemistry (B8)
>>> Netherlands Cancer Institute,
>>> Dept. B8, 1066 CX Amsterdam, The Netherlands
>>> Tel: +31 20 512 1951 Fax: +31 20 512 1954 Mobile /
>>> SMS: +31 6 28 597791
--
*******************************************
Jacob Pearson Keller
Northwestern University
Medical Scientist Training Program
email: [log in to unmask]
*******************************************
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