very good
L
On Mon, September 19, 2011 16:48, cris cheek wrote:
> green belt was all there was once
>
> this is incomer ivory-towership
>
> cc
>
>
>
> On Sep 19, 2011, at 11:25 AM, Patrick McManus wrote:
>
>
>> Hi isn't this all a bit political for these refined poets living in
>> their ivory towers (built on greenbelt land!!) :-) P-again
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Poetryetc: poetry and poetics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of Lawrence Upton
>> Sent: 19 September 2011 16:17
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Verbal clarity
>>
>>
>> I agree with you, to an extent
>>
>>
>> Rhetoric was really all that was available to me short of stating what
>> I
>> regard as being obvious and which ay not be obvious -- or acceptable --
>> to some
>>
>>> "Let's be clear" (twice) is defensive. What kinds of unclarity is it
>>> trying to ward off?
>>
>> The last thing he wanted was clarity. What I didn't say, because it
>> wasn't really my point, was that this morning I heard someone on the
>> radio differentiating between legal and lawful. Generally I would close
>> the door on such a discussion and leave to their privacy At that point
>> anyway I was looking my right boot, holding my left boot. So he may have
>> been asserting _legal_ aggressively Certainly that's in this context
>> defensive, but defensive of aggression
>>
>> Unclarity with regards to motive: "this is
>>
>>> about...legality" and not, for example, cash or crypto-racist
>>> nimbyism. Unclarity with regards to the projected outcome: "it will
>>> end" as intended rather than abort or be turned back.
>>
>> Yes, clearly, but he did not say that.
>>
>>
>> It is like - ish - the announcements that say _because we are late, we
>> shall now not call at the following stations_ eliding the decision they
>> have made, claiming a false causality
>>
>> and in such elisions sprout sometimes not just muddles but genocides
>>
>>> But the situation *is* unclear. The fog of war's come down. "The
>>> operation" is going to be a mess, or made a mess of. The arguments
>>> around the rights and wrongs of it are not going to be decisively
>>> settled, to general agreement, in favour of either side. Their
>>> respective polemics will strive mightily to banish unclarity, but
>>> unclarity is going to win.
>>
>> I think the fog is mental here I doubt either is striving for clarity.
>> The
>> council has frequently refused to debate / speak, merely referring to
>> how long this has been going on
>>
>> Israel is very good at that. We've been negotiating for n years!
>>
>>
>> No, you've been delaying and talking bollocks for n years
>>
>>
>> It's going to be a mess. Yes. It will be made a mess of. Yes. But the
>> individuals concerned are also doing something, waffling, talking crap.
>>
>> We can make something of it, but that something is then open to debate.
>>
>>
>> It's to do with liars always hating to be called liars, which is from
>> some viewpoints odd. They would prefer to lie to not be called liars
>> than to be called liars.
>>
>> This man was lying. He wasn't trying to be clear The legality of the
>> situation isn't clear. And it's not that they ARE stupid but that they
>> simulate stupidity rather than accept reality.
>>
>> I'd better go back to work, I think. I have a computer beside which
>> says _You are on a network_ and then asks what I want to do; and when I
>> tell it the reply is _but you are not on a network_
>>
>> I may have to send in the bailiffs
>>
>>
>> L
>>
>>
>> -----
>> UNFRAMED GRAPHICS by Lawrence Upton
>> 42 pages; A5 paperback; colour cover
>> Writers Forum 978 1 84254 277 4
>> wfuk.org.uk/blog ----
>> Lawrence Upton
>> Dept of Music
>> Goldsmiths, University of London
>>
>
-----
UNFRAMED GRAPHICS by Lawrence Upton
42 pages; A5 paperback; colour cover
Writers Forum 978 1 84254 277 4
wfuk.org.uk/blog
----
Lawrence Upton
Dept of Music
Goldsmiths, University of London
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