.. and one of the "hidden" costs of installing RFID is the per kiosk charge for connecting via SIP2 that we have to pay our LMS provider.....annually.
--
David Tanner
Manager: Stock and Systems
Adult and Community Services (Information)
North Yorkshire County Council
Library HQ
21 Grammar School Lane
Northallerton
North Yorkshire
DL6 1DF
Tel: 01609 533814
Fax: 01609 780793
email: [log in to unmask]
At the moment I am reading
"Any Human Heart" by William Boyd.
>>> On 26/08/2011 at 11:28 am, in message
<[log in to unmask]>, Mick Fortune
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear Ian
>
>
>
> I'm glad to hear that. The comment was based on conversations with two other
> LMS suppliers but it's also a view I hear from some RFID companies. I'd
> better explain the reference to 1989. It was then that 3M launched a
> self-service solution on the library world - in Paris - with Dynix (and me).
> Pretty soon after that they realised that having to develop a different
> interface for every LMS supplier out there was going to prove unsustainable
> so they launched a "certification" programme whereby LMS companies could pay
> to have their solutions certified for use with 3M products. To be certified
> you had to use the 3M protocol.
>
>
>
> Much later - when SIP was struggling to keep up with developments - one LMS
> company tried to reverse the process by trying to persuade RFID suppliers to
> pay them to use their protocol to connect to their LMS. I seem to be the
> last person left alive who was present on both occasions (and refused to pay
> on both occasions).
>
>
>
> It is clearly not in the interests of libraries to have to keep paying their
> LMS suppliers to build a new web service or API for them every time they
> want to add the smallest piece of functionality. Not just because it's
> expensive but also because every time they do, they move slightly further
> away from the chance of maintaining that functionality if they change
> suppliers.
>
>
>
> I grant you it looks like a confusing world out there. But NCIP have been
> working on the RFID problem for many years now and SIP celebrated its 22nd
> birthday recently. I think if 3M believed in NCIP they wouldn't have
> launched SIP 3.0. After all they are a prominent member of the NCIP
> committee.
>
>
>
> SIP 3.0 begins to look more and more like a specification for a new LMS
> altogether - and is unlikely to hit the streets any time soon. Plus the
> political issues surrounding data standards in the US look likely to rumble
> on for some time yet and 3M have only recently withdrawn an action against
> one of their US competitors for patent infringement - which is making some
> people jumpy about their plans for SIP 3.0. BIC's pragmatic approach was
> driven in part by the urgent need to resolve the matter before things get
> out of hand, and in part by listening to the frustrations of the RFID
> suppliers that want to work with a single protocol, rather than build a new
> one for every library. We've already made that mistake with the tags - let's
> not make it worse!
>
>
>
> BIC and CILIP are very grateful for the support of Infor in the RFID
> committee but, as you will know from your own attendance at our
> deliberations, some of its LMS members are rather lukewarm about RFID
> altogether. I think that has to change - because it's still LMS that drives
> much of RFID development - whether their developers realise it or not. I'm
> not sure that anybody wins if these two communities don't get a bit closer
> (maybe we'll see more standalone circulation systems?) but I'm pretty sure
> it will be the libraries that lose.
>
>
>
> Interesting that you should mention IFLA. My presentation to the newly
> established SIG on RFID last week - during which I shamelessly promoted the
> BIC standard as an international solution (and which may be viewed at
> http://ht.ly/66uQZ) was attended by Vinod Chachra and Todd Carpenter (chair
> of the NCIP committee and director of NISO respectively). So it's not like
> we're not trying to get a debate started.
>
>
>
> Thanks for doing your bit to keep it going :-)
>
>
>
> Best
>
>
>
> Mick
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ian Manson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 26 August 2011 10:53
> To: Mick Fortune; [log in to unmask]
> Subject: RE: New framework agreement for procurement of Library Systems inc
> LMS RFID
>
>
>
> Dear Mick and Ken,
>
>
>
> I don't think it is as simple a case 'that LMS suppliers would rather sell
> their own solutions than use a common protocol'.
>
> We spend a great deal of our development resources on ensuring we support
> common protocols and at the moment what comes after SIP2 is still emerging.
> The work done so far in the UK is excellent in defining a practical next
> step but will it turn out to be the common solution we are looking for or
> another variation on a theme that we need to adapt for a local market.
>
> We seem to be all moving in the right direction albeit at different speeds
> and I hope promoting standards through an international organisation such as
> IFLA may be beneficial.
>
>
>
> best regards
>
>
>
> Ian
>
> Ian Manson | Sales Manager | UK Libraries Division | Infor | 2 Westpoint
> Row, Bradley Stoke, Bristol, BS32 4QG | Tel +44 (0) 145-489-2200 | DDI +44
> (0) 145-489-2222 | Mobile 07966 111359 | Email [log in to unmask]
> <BLOCKED::mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
> Visit our web site <http://www.vubis-smart.com/html/homeeng.htm> : get the
> latest news <http://www.vubis-smart.com/html/ennews.htm> , read our
> newsletter <http://www.vubis-smart.com/html/ennewsletter.htm> and learn
> about our products <http://www.vubis-smart.com/html/ensolutions.htm>
>
> Follow us on <http://twitter.com/InforLibraries> Twitter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Mick Fortune
> Sent: 25 August 2011 18:23
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: New framework agreement for procurement of Library Systems inc
> LMS RFID
>
>
>
> Hi Ken
>
>
>
> I spoke on interoperability issues in Manchester over two years ago -and
> wrote to Manchester Libraries at the same time, but like most other UK
> public libraries, they weren't interested in hearing about any concerns
> about RFID data standards. They just wanted self-service.
>
>
>
> Happily IFLA recognises the need to establish common data standards -
> precisely in order to permit interoperability and choice, as well as
> allowing for greater exploitation of the technology by creating a more
> homogeneous market. The alternative is for the technology to remain
> languishing in the backwaters of self-service with neither the library or
> their RFID suppliers able to break out, change or expand their operations.
> That's why we've set up a special interest group. That's why what other
> European libraries were right to agree a common standard from the very
> start.
>
>
>
> I somehow doubt that any framework agreement, government sponsored or
> otherwise, will do very much to change the situation now facing UK libraries
> but fortunately RFID suppliers in the UK have more understanding of the need
> for standardisation than the majority of their clients. That's why they've
> supported a common data standard for RFID tagging, why they are (mostly) in
> favour of migration, and why they've spent so much of their valuable
> development time and resource this year building a better (open) interface
> for LMS integration. It's just a pity that LMS suppliers would rather sell
> their own solutions than use a common protocol. They do this by hiding
> behind the fact that librarians aren't asking for it- but then we've been
> here before. In 1989. That's when SIP was invented.
>
>
>
> Plus ca change :-)
>
>
>
> Best
>
>
>
> Mick
>
>
>
> From: Ken Chad [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 25 August 2011 18:06
> To: 'Mick Fortune'; [log in to unmask]
> Subject: RE: New framework agreement for procurement of Library Systems inc
> LMS RFID
>
>
>
> The list of companies for...
>
> 'systems that would support these functions include but are not limited to:
> RFID, library management systems, library automation (including web user
> interface), cataloguing systems, collection management systems, leisure
> management systems, booking systems (including online booking systems),
> allotment administration software, interactive software, translation
> software, facilities booking systems'
>
> ..are......
>
> # Azeus Systems Limited
>
> # Bramble.cc Limited
>
> # Capita Group
>
> # Civica UK Limited
>
> # HTK Limited
>
> # Managemycomplaints.com
>
> # SirsiDynix
>
> # Zipporah Ltd
>
>
>
> I don't see RFID companies in there? I don't know if they made bids to be
> included. (I wonder who the 'allotment administration software' vendors are?
> ).
>
>
>
> Some library consortia such as SELMS (based around the Civica Spydus LMS)
> and London Libraries Consortium-LLC (based around Axiell Galaxy) already
> have framework agreements in place that allow new authorities to join
> without going through an EU tender.
>
>
>
> Looking at the upcoming library management system procurements listed on
> the Local Gov Library Technology (LGlibTech) wiki
> (http://lglibtech.wikispaces.com/Procurements ) ---and reckoning there must
> be others not on that list --I'd estimate that 15-20% of UK library
> authorities are looking to change their library systems..with quite a few
> joining consortia. That will inevitably raise issues around interoperability
> of RFID systems-something I did point out in my work with Greater
> Manchester.
>
>
>
> I don't see any mention of the key criteria you mention in the customer
> guidance but the guidance does say:
>
> 'Each customer (or Customer Group) will need to define their requirement
> prior to running a
>
> Further Competition. This may be a technical specification for a specific
> system that is required or it may be an
>
> output based specification'.
>
> Ken
>
> Tel +44 (0)7788 727 845. Email: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> [log in to unmask] <http://www.kenchadconsulting.com/>
> www.kenchadconsulting.com
>
> Skype: kenchadconsulting Twitter: @KenChad
>
> Open Library Systems Specifications: <http://libtechrfp.wikispaces.com/>
> http://libtechrfp.wikispaces.com
>
>
>
> From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Mick Fortune
> Sent: 25 August 2011 14:24
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: New framework agreement for procurement of Library Systems inc
> LMS RFID
>
>
>
> Hi Ken
>
>
>
> Yes, I saw this in an announcement from Capita recently. Interesting - and
> probably ill thought out stuff.
>
>
>
> I wondered why they had RFID first in the list.
>
>
>
> Presumably the framework will include some companies that actually deliver
> RFID solutions? None of those you mention do.
>
>
>
> Sorry to be so parochial (about RFID) but it is rather disheartening to see
> yet another framework agreement being issued that almost certainly does not
> refer to any of the key criteria that should form part of a successful
> implementation - adherence to data standards, open communication between LMS
> and RFID, interoperability between RFID systems, integration with LMS etc.
> Yet more disappointment and potentially expensive re-investment ahead for
> yet more libraries I fear.
>
>
>
> Still it's great news for Capita, Civica and SD. Less good news for PTFS
> Europe, Axiell and the others?
>
>
>
> .and terrible news for anyone buying RFID.
>
>
>
> Mick
>
>
>
> From: lis-pub-libs: UK Public Libraries [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Ken Chad
> Sent: 25 August 2011 12:01
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: New framework agreement for procurement of Library Systems inc LMS
> RFID
>
>
>
> Quite a few library authorities are looking to change their library systems
> and will find the following government announcement relevant:
>
> 'Software Application Solutions for Local Government
>
> See http://www.buyingsolutions.gov.uk/categories/ICT/Software/LGSAS/
>
>
>
> This new framework agreement is designed to save costs by streamlining the
> procurement process by avoiding a costly EU tender. I should also point out
> that a further way to reduce procurement costs is to use the UK Core
> specification (UKCS) which is now available free of charge on the Open
> System Specifications (LibTechRFP) website.
> http://libtechrfp.wikispaces.com/
>
>
>
> The announcement also notes that 'Government Procurement Service is keen to
> facilitate any aggregation opportunities that councils have'. Looking at the
> Local Government Library Technology wiki (LGLibTech) 'Procurements' page
> http://lglibtech.wikispaces.com/Procurements it seems as if quite a few
> library authorities are looking to join consortia and develop shared
> services. I have just finished working with what will could a very large and
> exciting project in Greater Manchester. (http://www.kenchadconsulting.com/)
>
>
>
> From the government announcement:
>
> 'We are pleased to announce that a new framework designed specifically to
> meet the needs of local government is now available. Local Government
> Software Application Solutions provides an efficient and cost effective
> route to purchase software that supports the activities of local government
> such as planning or social care. There are 39 suppliers in total ranging
> from multi-national to SME organisations, providing services through the
> nine Lots of the framework agreement'
>
>
>
> Library systems are included under the heading:
>
> 'Social Care & Education - Libraries, Museums and Leisure related Software
> Application Solutions'
>
>
>
> The definition is as follows:
>
> 'Software Application Solutions which specifically enable Local Government
> Bodies to deliver their functions in the field of libraries, museums and
> leisure. Including: administration and management of enquiries, bookings,
> admissions, memberships, buildings and assets. Example systems that would
> support these functions include but are not limited to: RFID, library
> management systems, library automation (including web user interface),
> cataloguing
>
> systems, collection management systems, leisure management systems, booking
> systems (including online booking systems), allotment administration
> software, interactive software, translation software, facilities booking
> systems'.
>
>
>
> The library system providers named in the agreement are Capita, Civica and
> SirsiDynix
>
>
>
> Ken
>
> Ken Chad Consulting Ltd
>
> Tel +44 (0)7788 727 845. Email: [log in to unmask]
> www.kenchadconsulting.com <http://www.kenchadconsulting.com/>
>
> Skype: kenchadconsulting Twitter: @KenChad
>
> Open Library Systems Specifications: http://libtechrfp.wikispaces.com
> <http://libtechrfp.wikispaces.com/>
>
>
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