no 3d glasses? was it the 3d version of the film? i imagine it would be
annoying to view a 3dified film without 3d glasses.

yes, the ending was interesting. who is more human? he asks. the old people
or us?

i thought the documentary was most interesting just for what it showed of
the cave. the rest of it was alright, but the cave is the main attraction in
that documentary; it's the best view of the cave many of us will get.

there's one point where the guide says 'be quiet. let us listen to the
cave.' and i was looking forward to that. perhaps herzog might shut up and
perhaps the people in the theatre might shut up and we can listen to the
cave; that would be interesting. the people in the theatre shut up--they
wanted to hear the silence too--but herzog couldn't stand more than about a
second of silence without having to aesthetify it by overdubbing the sound
of a heartbeat. no herzog, we wanted to hear the silence of the cave, damn
it.

herzog seemed uncomfortable with the documentary form, always wanting to
aesthetisize it with art. sometimes that worked ok, but when it gets in the
way of experiencing the cave and its art, it's quite annoying.

and then, yes, he falsely claims that chauvet's are the oldest paintings.
simple ignorance or something else?

he is used to making films that rely on his art, not the art of others,
perhaps, and has a hard time fully focussing on that other art without a bit
of 'me me me'.

ja

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Slidvid of Aleph Null stills


> We went to watch the film in Stamford (not far from the tomb of William
> Cecil) and not only were there no 3D glasses but also the advertised
> post-showing link up with the director didn't happen so possibly the
> lizard-alien at the end was the most (visually or otherwise)  interesting
> moment but as one of a mercurial disposition myself I was quite touched
> that
> the cave artist had been evidently one of the crooked little finger
> fraternity too. I did wonder about the rival claims to antiquity in other
> places myself. I did like though Herzog's suggestion that to the people of
> the time the paintings had an equivalent visual impact to moving pictures.
> It's rather refreshing, drawing from the deep wells of the cultural past:
> I've just been reading Fagles' versions of the Odyssey and the Iliad, back
> to back, and even though translation they do remind me of why I took to
> poetry in the first place. Muldoon praised Fagles for catching the
> 'savagery
> and swagger' of the poems, but of course Homer isn't really any more
> savage
> than we are, *collectively*,  it's just more open about it, as children
> are.
>
> best
>
> david
>
> On 4 August 2011 22:20, Jim Andrews <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> herzog says they're the oldest paintings. but, talking with my friend the
>> novelist, he says that needs to be qualified: the oldest in europe. not
>> surprisingly, there are older ones in africa. and australia, as you say.
>> chauvet was only discovered in 1994. the cave is 1300 feet long with many
>> twists and turns and endless stalactites and stalagmites. and lots of
>> animal
>> bones and skulls, some of which are now extinct. the documentary is
>> terrific
>> not only for the view of the cave paintings but the cave itself, which
>> has
>> been awesome, ancient, deep and dark for tens of thousands of years.
>>
>> yes, there could be more such caves. the entrance the old people used was
>> covered by a rockslide. they briefly show the old entrance from the
>> inside
>> of the cave.
>>
>> ja
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick McManus" <
>> [log in to unmask]**>
>>
>> To:
>> <[log in to unmask]**AC.UK<[log in to unmask]>
>> >
>> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 7:28 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: Slidvid of Aleph Null stills
>>
>>
>>  Cheers  jim re oldest paintings how about Australian Aboriginal art?
>>> From wiki
>>> Aboriginal rock art has been created for a long period of time, with the
>>> oldest examples, in West Australia's Pilbara region, and the Olary
>>> district
>>> of South Australia, estimated to be up to around 40,000 years old.[2]
>>> Rock
>>> art gives us descriptive information about social activities, material
>>> culture, economy, environmental change, myth and religion. This is an
>>> Aboriginal way of showing recognition and wisdom-to be open to the
>>> environment.
>>> Cheers Patrick
>>> I am interested that there may be more caves around the Mediterranean
>>> because the water levels were so much lower then
>>> The art rep animals --more recently much art is scantily women interests
>>> change
>>> I will look out for the film I did visit an online website
>>> I often see female minotaurlike females in Raynes Park
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: British & Irish poets
>>> [mailto:BRITISH-IRISH-POETS@**JISCMAIL.AC.UK<[log in to unmask]>]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Jim Andrews
>>> Sent: 04 August 2011 14:21
>>> To:
>>> [log in to unmask]**AC.UK<[log in to unmask]>
>>> Subject: Re: Slidvid of Aleph Null stills
>>>
>>> Thanks, Patrick. Speaking of Lascaux, I went to see Herzog's documentary
>>> about the Chauvet cave last night. His new film Cave of Forgotten Dreams
>>> is
>>> probably the best view I'm going to get of the Chauvet cave. With 3D
>>> glasses
>>>
>>> in a theatre with a big screen. Herzog and co were given several hours
>>> of
>>> visiting time over several days. It's worth seeing just to get a
>>> relatively
>>> good look at the oldest human paintings on record (32,000 years). Now's
>>> the
>>> time to see the film, while it's still in the theatres.  Almost all of
>>> the
>>> drawings in the cave are of animals; there's only a couple of
>>> representations of humans. One of those is apparently female
>>> minotaur-like,
>>> but we don't get much of a view of it in the film. The animals are
>>> magnificent, though. A vast cave full of the oldest paintings known to
>>> man,
>>> and what are they of? Almost all of them are representations of animals.
>>> Rhinoceri, lions, bison, ibek, mamoths, bears, panthers, hyena...all
>>> lived
>>> in France 32,000 years ago, apparently. There are two overlapping
>>> animals
>>> that were drawn 5,000 years apart.
>>>
>>> A friend of mine is writing a novel set in that time, inspired by the
>>> Chauvet cave paintings. There's a part of the novel where the characters
>>> descend into the cave. It's really gripping. Experiencing their utterly
>>> ancient past, our unutterably ancient past in the dark grottos and
>>> bowels
>>> of
>>>
>>> the earth. These paintings were done by fully human people. Deeply
>>> enchanted
>>>
>>> by their fellow creatures. And, in turn, deeply enchanting.
>>>
>>> ja
>>> http://vispo.com/aleph/images/**slidvid1<http://vispo.com/aleph/images/slidvid1>
>>> http://vispo.com/aleph
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> David Joseph Bircumshaw
> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
> twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
> blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
>