I needed that. The original posts had led me to some Gnoetry and I felt like
screaming.
dad hondrade-tungende-
mein-Gedicht, das Gno-
em
On 21 July 2011 09:06, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I'm very aware of the importance of play in all art, Andrew, what sets my
> teeth on edge is the mechanical formulaic ritualised
> processed-f-ing-cheese-standardisation-Ronald Macdonald on every
> corner-boredom of making it a prescriptive practice.
>
> Once, the avant-garde represented an upending of conventions, a departure
> from homogeneity. Now it's the stuff of creative writing classes. It's
> become just as boring as the mainstream it affects to despise. Yes, there
> are exceptions to that, and the situation in other languages can be
> different, outside the dreadful pointless plaything of a pampered 'middle'
> class that Anglophone poetry largely is, but the general effect is like
> watching a cultural waste production system.
>
>
>
>
> On 21 July 2011 06:32, andrew burke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> David - yes and no. I find games of poetry often lead to a 'true' poem -
>> as
>> the old folk-poet Frost once said, A poem begins in delight and ends in
>> wisdom. I often start with the rules and set about breaking them, but it
>> seems to give the best of my poems some cohesion (for all my foot-tapping
>> and finger-snapping <g>). I've written a worthwhile villanelle and a
>> pantoum
>> but never a sestina - too dull with words or too complex with the
>> patchwork.
>>
>> Just chatting ...
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> On 21 July 2011 13:11, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > There are of course alternative views of MacLow and diastics - for
>> example
>> > http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/diastic+poetry - I quite like the phrase
>> > 'literary sudoku' - but really the end of all this is the land of
>> Gnoetry.
>> > I
>> > find it quite interesting that elements in bourgeois US 'poetry culture'
>> is
>> > so keen of wiping out the 'creative', Dryden's 'peaceful province in
>> > acrostic land' has reverberations that arch twister never intended; it's
>> > peculiar too how the questioning of bourgeois subjectivity has ended up
>> > becoming the friend of mechanised culture, although the long
>> appropriation
>> > of the avant-garde by money makes it not too surprising. You start off
>> with
>> > Rimbaud and end up with Warhol. Fear not managers, the poets are your
>> > friends. It's like a kind of huge cultural inhume-you-ment.
>> >
>> > On 21 July 2011 04:38, andrew burke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > What fun! Thanks, Barry, for the diastic - a form I've never tried.
>> (And
>> > > clever Doug for spotting it!) I'll have a go when I've stopped with
>> the
>> > > domestics - who ever said retirement was bliss! (Do writers ever
>> retire?)
>> > > Andrew
>> > >
>> > > On 21 July 2011 03:03, Barry Alpert <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Thanks, Doug. Actually a diastic, a form invented by Jackson
>> MacLow,
>> > > which
>> > > > I often try to weld to the sonnet. Very difficult to keep in mind
>> the
>> > > > positions of the letters within words during a live talk or during a
>> > > film,
>> > > > but here I had my source interview on the computer screen as I chose
>> > > > language units.
>> > > >
>> > > > Barry
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:19:47 -0600, Douglas Barbour <
>> > > > [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >Neatly done, & sneaky indented acrostic, Barry.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Doug
>> > > > >On 2011-07-20, at 12:08 PM, Barry Alpert wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> NAM JUNE PAIK DAY
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Douglas Barbour
>> > > > >[log in to unmask]
>> > > > >
>> > > > >http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
>> > > > >http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Latest books:
>> > > > >Continuations (with Sheila E Murphy)
>> > > > >http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=664
>> > > > >Wednesdays'
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-from-aboveground-press_10.html
>> > > > >
>> > > > >It is natural to speak of your own weaknesses so winsomely they
>> will
>> > > seem
>> > > > strengths, as if everyone else is inadequate if they do not have
>> your
>> > > > inadequacies.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > William H. Gass
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Andrew
>> > > http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
>> > > 'Mother Waits for Father Late' republished available at
>> > > http://www.picaropress.com/
>> > > http://www.qlrs.com/poem.asp?id=766
>> > > http://frankshome.org/AndrewBurke.html
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > David Joseph Bircumshaw
>> > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> > http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>> > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
>> > twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
>> > blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andrew
>> http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
>> 'Mother Waits for Father Late' republished available at
>> http://www.picaropress.com/
>> http://www.qlrs.com/poem.asp?id=766
>> http://frankshome.org/AndrewBurke.html
>>
>
>
>
> --
> David Joseph Bircumshaw
> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
> twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
> blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
>
--
David Joseph Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet
http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
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