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BRITISH-IRISH-POETS  July 2011

BRITISH-IRISH-POETS July 2011

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Subject:

Re: More outspokenness from R. Lumsden at Poets on Fire

From:

Peter Hughes <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

British & Irish poets <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 6 Jul 2011 12:08:19 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (133 lines)

I often think there should be more poets on fire.


On 6 Jul 2011, at 11:55, Paul Green wrote:

> Maybe a Fire-Elemental would serve more effectively.
> 
> 
> On 6/7/11 12:53, "Paul Green" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> I was intrigued by Tim Allen's reference to the Black Mass. Does he  mean
>> the classic C19 Parisian Black Mass, as evoked by Huysmans, Summers et al,
>> complete with virgin,  or he is a closet Thelemite, attending the Gnostic
>> Mass devised by the Master Therion 666, which is not really black at all,
>> more a deep shade of purple.  And then there's the Mass of Chaos, devised by
>> the Initiates of Thanateros...
>> 
>> You don't really need a Mass, as such, to inter-act astrally with Mr
>> Lumsden. An Invocation to Bartzabel should do the trick.
>> 
>> Frater P
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/7/11 12:31, "David Lace" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm amazed at how Lumsden got that job, too. Chris must have been going
>>> through a mid-life crisis or something when he appointed him. To think that
>>> Lumsden has the responsibility of vetting any avant-garde poetry submissions
>>> from those poets still anxious to be associated with Salt is almost parodic.
>>> Chris must have a sense of humour after all.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6 Jul 2011, at 11:33, Tim Allen wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes well, thanks for reminding us of this David. Anyway I have always
>>> reserved my opinion of Lumsdon for when I attend black mass. I'd
>>> forgotten the 'bristly old guard bit' - and yes I have been bristly
>>> since I was 20.
>>> 
>>> The main trouble with what he says, as befits a polemicist, is to
>>> conflate two different things - the slow death of the listservs and
>>> his very low opinion of the avant garde.
>>> 
>>> He was right about the problems caused when Mallin and Byrne became
>>> the moderators - Rupert Mallin was not really interested in innovative
>>> poetry, old or new, and Mairead Byrne, although she had enthusiasms
>>> for what was happening in the States (where she had moved to) had very
>>> little knowledge about the British scene, and didn't seem to
>>> understand what any of us were talking about. Add to this the fact
>>> that both of them were highly opinionated people (not 'hands off'
>>> moderators in other words) the result was friction and frustration for
>>> all concerned.
>>> 
>>> I still post here when something comes up that catches my attention -
>>> most of the time the list is very quiet, which suits me, because then
>>> I get some work done. I haven't moved on to the blogs etc yet, I just
>>> haven't bothered and I might never bother. Part of the problem there
>>> is that there are so many of them - therefore they don't provide the
>>> same kind of focus as the listservs did. If this list closed down then
>>> I would probably bit by bit begin to use the blogs.
>>> 
>>> A question to anyone out there - do any of you know how and why
>>> Lumsdon became poetry editor at Salt? One of the most vocal critics of
>>> the innovative scene becomes the editor of what a few years back was
>>> the main vehicle for that scene - a coincidence?????
>>> 
>>> Cheers
>>> 
>>> Tim A.
>>> 
>>> On 5 Jul 2011, at 21:37, David Lace wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Sorry, but I just can't resist posting this here:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> "[...] As for wider comments about BritPo and the listservs, I have
>>>> some to make...
>>>> 
>>>> The email based listservs have now had their day. I think any
>>>> connection between the booming health of UKLIP and the crapulous
>>>> BritPo is unproductive though. Even forums like this one will
>>>> probably be dead in another five-ten years and I don't want to take
>>>> anything away from the important, exciting business of connecting
>>>> disparate minds which was done by poetryetc, britpo, wompo and the
>>>> rest. But it's time to knock some of those old forums on the head -
>>>> they have mainly become ad sites and, in the case of petc, just
>>>> another terrible-poem-post site.
>>>> 
>>>> As to Britpo specifically, it has been a soap opera with a dwindling
>>>> audience for years. The reasons for this are complex and would take
>>>> long explanations which would be as tedious as trying to explain
>>>> Hollyoaks to someone who hasn't seen it since '02. A few reasons are
>>>> obvious though...
>>>> 
>>>> - as I've said before, though set up as a discussion forum for poets
>>>> writing outside of the mainstream, all too often it has been a crap-
>>>> shoot for puppies humping the ankles of the mainstream, and that has
>>>> never been stamped on as much as it should have been - it has put a
>>>> lot of LIP poets off joining and being tarred with that stick
>>>> 
>>>> - none of the younger innovative poets want anything to do with
>>>> britpo - and its whiff of jazz, elbow patches, fag-smoke and 70s
>>>> politics - it's like walking in on your old folks doing it!
>>>> 
>>>> - the major reason for its demise is the demise of the list-serv,
>>>> but second was the change of moderators to Byrne and Rupert Mallin
>>>> some time back - perfectly credible choices in some ways, but, well,
>>>> not exactly 'innovative' poets, given the list's focus. Mallin had
>>>> also, near to the changeover, made some disparaging comments about
>>>> the state of UK/I innovative poetry - the last straw for many of the
>>>> bristly old guard like Upton, Allen and Riley.
>>>> 
>>>> - most of the posters who plaster their ads and poems over the site
>>>> clearly never read the rest and don't contribute to the community -
>>>> this sleazy practice ought to have a name really - I'm sure it does!
>>>> 
>>>> - most of the posters left there have never even heard of most of
>>>> the fabulous newer poets writing innovative poetry in the US, UK and
>>>> elsewhere (and this will be splendidly proved by a clear lack of
>>>> response to Chris' new post there asking about what is going on now
>>>> - expect tumbleweeds). And most of them, oddly, are not even
>>>> innovative poets but old bores of the self-appointed maverick
>>>> tendency!
>>>> 
>>>> Time to put it quietly to sleep I think, as happened with
>>>> Crossroads, which had more credibility and distinctly more viewers."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> http://z11.invisionfree.com/Poets_On_Fire/index.php?showtopic=627
> 

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