JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for PHD-DESIGN Archives


PHD-DESIGN Archives

PHD-DESIGN Archives


PHD-DESIGN@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

PHD-DESIGN Home

PHD-DESIGN Home

PHD-DESIGN  March 2011

PHD-DESIGN March 2011

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Status of "design" re Japanese nuclear crisis?

From:

Terence Love <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Terence Love <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 18 Mar 2011 23:18:22 +0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (241 lines)

Dear Jean and Clive,

Nuclear power stations are 'complicated' (very complicated!)  rather than
'complex'. 

One of the main issues for designers is to remove feedback loops from the
technology. That is, to ensure as much as possible that complexity does not
affect either the intended action of the system or its failure. Things are
designed to  be simply sequential both in action and failure.

The failures that occurred were simply sequential (the water stopped the
electrical system---that stopped the cooling system etc...)

A complicated design  and a complicated system yes- very.  The mode of
failure - *not even* very complicated.  Complex design issues in the
technology - no.

Some might claim the public political human side of the decision-making may
be complex. Likely failures on the human side are likely hardly even
'complicated'. For example Bloomberg report there are problems in
independence of judgement in setting criteria for design and safety of
nuclear reactors
(http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=awR8KsLlAcSo). 

From looking at this situation, the answer to Clive's question about what
the Fukushima failures mean in a general way for ' the construction,
operation and implication(s) of complex systems?', would seem to be - not at
all.   Though it probably gives some new insights into how to better deal
with complications.

Best wishes,
Terry

-----Original Message-----
From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related
research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jean
Schneider
Sent: Friday, 18 March 2011 10:35 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Status of "design" re Japanese nuclear crisis?

Dear all,

I am not sure whether I misread or misunderstood most of the mails,  
but I haven't found yet any answer to Clive's point:
 >> The second question, which asked "to what extent does the failure  
of the
Fukushima plant throw up the generic failure of purely technological
models of design with respect to the construction, operation and
implication(s) of complex systems?" was both a provocation and a deeply
serious question.

I wouldn't blame any engineer, operator etc. for what is happening as  
such. I tend to believe that all these people do their jobs  
reasonably well, within the limits of probabilities.
If, in 30 years from now, the consequences of global warming render  
significant parts of our Earth inhabitable, will it be time to see  
who should be blamed ? This is the same question : any nuclear  
engineer (living in a country that has the arrogance to produce 75%  
of its energy through the safest nuclear power plants that exist...)  
will tell you that it is all, almost planned for. Tested. Calculated.  
Doubled. Tripled. 0,0001% probability... but who knows that, for the  
oldest power plants, some operators and engineers are retiring, and  
when they leave, no one really knows any more the story of the  
wiring, relays, control systems that are not manufacturd anymore  
(BTW, old is short, in that field : 25/30 years... no upgrade or  
fix... and then : a monument of concrete and radioactive waste that  
needs to be taken care of for thousands of years). All this takes  
care of the entity in isolation, not in connection to. Say: to a  
truck that crashes on the motorway and blocks the access, while you  
would need all fire brigades, to an engineer on holiday and his  
replacement ill.
In my understanding, what Clive is asking is closer to an ontological  
question : who takes the responsibility for implementing, maintaining  
and endorsing the accident of major technological systems ? It is too  
easy to blame a few politicians. It is like blaming some stupid  
engineer who didn't crosscheck the results. The question is : why,  
and to what extent, does a community delegate. Why, and to what  
extent, the debate is broken down to experts-who-know against people- 
who-don't. Why is the fact of that a community says calmly and  
deliberatly "no" (to nuclear energy, to shale gas, to GM crops, to  
mining, to dams...) considered primitive and regressive. When  
imposing this is the local consequence, the upper crust, of an  
unsustainable society?
Note that I am saying accident, not failure. What is, by essence, not  
predictable.
The odd thing is that the destroying "potential" of some of our  
technological systems (major dams, power plants, but also the  
aggregated consumption of natural resources) is close (for the human  
community) to those of natural disasters. Uncertain (don't know when  
and where), affects the "innocents" (no victim has made the decisive  
wrong act), massive and long lasting (reshapes deeply the life of  
communities).

I do think that Clive has an essential point. Maybe my phrasing and  
understanding is slightly different, but it seems to me important  
that the design community, as one of the communities that claims to  
interface? connect ? represent ? mediate ? between the human society  
and its material and specificaly technical "infrastructure" goes a  
bit beyond the "it could be designed better". However you turn it, a  
disaster is an event, not a design failure.
One of the things I am trying, extremely modestly, to push design to  
(at least: in some projects and actions) is to use its tools to  
create a democratic decision process on the decisions that should be  
taken by communities. But, before that, it is probably up to each of  
us, as individuals, to infuse his/her own understanding of technology  
and technological arrogance in his/her daily work.

Here, we used to have this monuments to soldiers dead in operations.  
In a near future, we should have a monument to those workers (in  
Tchernobyl, Fukushima maybe, and so many elsewere) who died as  
soldiers fighting the 0,0001% event that turned into a real nightmare.

Best regards,

Jean
Le 17 mars 11 à 13:23, Clive Dilnot a écrit :

In regards to the unfolding double tragedies in Japan, Donald Norman’s
“leap-to” diatribe in defense of engineers completely misses the
point. In fact, it is part of the problem (in that, as the subsequent
replies showed, it diverts the real question in all the wrong
directions—no Virginia, building a 100-metre sea wall is not the
answer).

My original post asked two questions. The first was open—what does the
word “design” mean when it is used in connection with the design of  (or
what I would call the configuration) of the Japanese nuclear plants?
What is “design” here? What is that in the nuclear plant or as a quality
of the plant, that causes commentators to talk of its ‘design”?

The second question, which asked "to what extent does the failure of the
Fukushima plant throw up the generic failure of purely technological
models of design with respect to the construction, operation and
implication(s) of complex systems?" was both a provocation and a deeply
serious question. This was not aimed at individual engineers, for whom I
have enormous sympathy, but at certain view of “how to design.” So the
intent of the second question was not to skewer some poor bastard for
not anticipating a 10-metre Tsunami (though let us say this is a nuclear
plant in a zone prone to earthquakes, one that has experienced no less
than 308 separate quakes within 200 miles in the last 11 days alone).
Above all, it was not to suggest that the ‘design profession could have
done it better.’ They would not.

But we are, in all likelihood, facing a nuclear crisis. To be sure, in
comparison to the much larger humanitarian disaster of the
earthquake/Tsunami (which is also, we will see, a “design”
problem—though not a design professional problem) this is (as yet)
the smaller crisis. Indeed, its arguable that the nuclear crisis is
diversion from the real problem, which is revealed to be the fact that
an advanced and nominally extremely organized State cannot cope with
even a relatively small humanitarian crisis; that it cannot organize
basic supplies of food, water and shelter for less than 1% of its
population (Today’s figures suggest just less than ½ million persons in
need of food and shelter; 1.4 million without power). The real crisis
then is the political one.

But in relation to Fukushima we also have a technical crisis—a failure
of technical back-up systems and of management and organization that has
put on the table the prospect of a nuclear meltdown.

It is irrelevant that, even in worse case scenarios, “only” the local
population may be affected. Such scientific common-sense is useful to
put the situation in context; it allays the apocalyptic—at least for the
moment. But it also misses the point: the “meaning” of Fukushima is not
in the number of eventual casualties but in the sense that here is a
crisis that should not be occurring; and it should not be occurring (the
public in this case intelligently perceives) because if you are dealing
with technologies which have potential for disaster on the scale of the
nuclear then you had damn well better make sure that you think through
the consequences and implications of deploying this technology.

In the case of Fukushima, disaster is the making not because of an
“unexpected event” (earthquakes and thus Tsunami in this part of
Japan are no more “unexpected” than icebergs were in the North Atlantic
in April 1912) but because of a lack of resilience in the total system
of which Fukushima is only one small part.

The objective engineering response to this situation is not to lament
the impossibility of the individual engineer thinking through every
possibility—nor to advocate bigger walls. It is to ask a question about
the system that, in effect, short-changed (doubtless on economic
grounds) the conceptual procedure of thinking through the resilience of
the system. (And which on another level short-changed also the capacity
of local management to respond well to theshort-changing that lead  
them to concoct ad-hoc solutions (hoses of
seawater as coolant) rather than, from the first moment, focusing also
on re-connecting power, the loss of which is the real or at least the
immediate “culprit” in this scenario. It is this failure that has seen
today pathetic (and failing attempts) to drop water by helicopter over
the plant, 90% of which cannot possibly reach its intended target, and
which (as I write) is about to see attempts by water cannon to spray
water on the reactors! Such ad-hoc responses are perhaps courageous, in
a Heath-Robinson kind of way, but they are also evidence of severe
systemic failure.

So the issue is not the “poor bloody infantry” of the front-line
engineers, doubtless also busy obeying company dictat as to cost and
economy, the question is how do we think adequately—which means think
socially, politically, economically as well as technologically, about
the complex trade-offs involved in the “design” of such systems? This
comes back to my original questions, first, about the “design” of the
plant (what does it mean exactly to “design” a nuclear plant?) and
second about whether the complex levels of failure at Fukushima throw
light on the ‘generic failure of purely technological models of design
with respect to the construction, operation and implication(s) of
complex systems?’ Notice the qualifier here. This is not the nonsense
question of the design professions “doing better” than the engineers, it
is a question about the adequacy of the ways in which conceptually and
operationally we think of the conception, operation (and ownership) of
complex technological systems which contain within them the
possibilities for disaster.

One issues here is political. Should private companies be allowed to run
such plants—when as we’ve seen spectacularly this year with the BP
case—the companies instinct is both to cut costs to the bone and to
abandon as rapidly as possible the site of its disasters? The point here
is that such questions today demand to be brought into the total  
“design”
process. Yet part of what we are talking about here is that while we are
certainly talking in some ways here about “design” (this word referring
to a configurational choice amongst alternatives) “design” is itself a
completely inadequate term (with all the wrong associations) for the
kind of process which needs to be undertaken. So we come back again to
the question: what does it mean to “design” such plants? And what does
the answer to that question tell us about the responsibilities and work
of “design” as a whole?

Clive


Clive Dilnot
Professor of Design Studies
School of Art Design History and Theory
Parsons School of Design,
New School University.
Room #731
2 E 16th St
New York NY 10011
e [log in to unmask]

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager