JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for MCG Archives


MCG Archives

MCG Archives


MCG@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

MCG Home

MCG Home

MCG  March 2011

MCG March 2011

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: The "revenue from free" question

From:

Naomi Korn <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Museums Computer Group <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 11 Mar 2011 18:07:43 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (213 lines)

Hi 

This is a very interesting debate as many museums are currently considering
opening up their collections for reuse, and I agree that reuse of images and
commercial exploitation of images are not mutually exclusive, actually the
reverse. This would be a great topic for a seminar maybe?

In terms of motivations for image licensing, I would say that there are many
reasons other than just pure income generation. These include building new
audiences, cost recovery etc. Simon Tanner's excellent report funded by the
Mellon and reviewing the practices of US-based museum picture libraries is
still highly relevant

http://www.kdcs.kcl.ac.uk/fileadmin/documents/USMuseum_SimonTanner.pdf

Naomi

-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
REYNOLDS, Trevor
Sent: 11 March 2011 12:15
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The "revenue from free" question

Is "full economic costing of preparing and delivering content for commercial
uses" always what it's about?  I have no idea whether our picture library
covers all its costs from income.  What I do know is that we use them a lot
to do internal work, we would still need someone to do that work and if we
can get some income to offset some of those costs then that is a good thing
(surely).

-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick
Poole
Sent: 11 March 2011 11:19
To: REYNOLDS, Trevor
Subject: Re: The "revenue from free" question

Hi Mike, 

Thanks for this. The project that Mike refers to is a piece of research
which the Collections Trust has been doing with Curtis & Cartwright and
Ithaka on behalf of the European Commission to review the different types of
re-use of Public Sector Information.

Public Sector Information is broadly defined as 'your digital stuff' and the
outcomes of the project will inform the Commission's decision on whether or
not to retain the exemption for Museums & Libraries under the PSI Directive,
which is currently under review.

In broad terms, what we have been trying to do is identify and characterise
instances where cultural institutions have re-used their digital content for
both commercial and non-commercial purposes. What has been interesting is
that we have found it very hard to identify any instances where a cultural
institution is generating a stable, repeatable surplus on this trading
activity of a sufficient magnitude to justify the effort involved. 

It is my conjecture - and I should emphasise that it is only a conjecture at
the moment - that when you undertake a full economic costing of preparing
and delivering content for commercial uses, the return on that investment is
marginal. Further, when you offset this return against the potentially far
higher return of the distributed re-use of open cultural datasets, it seems
to us that we are not reaching the full potential benefit of significantly
increased mindshare among mainstream audiences in the name of protecting an
economically unsustainable income line on the balance sheet.

The other part of this conjecture is that the economics of running a picture
library in a National Museum - where you can to an extent presume certain
background costs such as accommodation or access to legal advice - are
totally different from those of running one in a smaller museum. This was
essentially the topic of my keynote at yesterday's Bits to Blogs event,
which you can read on the OpenCulture blog at
http://openculture.collectionstrustblogs.org.uk. 

This debate has been rumbling for ages - open it up and you risk losing
control, but the potential rewards in terms of new audiences are huge.
Lock it down and you might generate income from it, but the experience of
commercial picture libraries suggests you will struggle. Personally, I would
love the debate to move on to the idea that a smart museum can do both, and
everything in between, by taking an informed and strategic approach to
licensing and risk management. The problem is that the evidence base in
favour of either is threadbare at best.

Mike suggested a one-day event, at which the broadcasters, picture
libraries, publishers, museums, Wikipedians, galleries and other creative
industries came together to debate the idea of a balanced economy which
reconciled the interests of commercial vs. open. My concern is that I think
museums rather like having their cake and eating it, in the sense that we
want to be open and public-realm when it suits us yet retain the ability to
commercialise when we can. This is why the Collections Trust has stepped
back from engaging in the Copyright discourse - because it became apparent
that as a sector we are deeply conflicted in how we want to handle the issue
of rights. 

I would really love to hear thoughts about whether this is a debate worth
pursuing, and how people are thinking about it at the moment!

All best, 

Nick  




Nick Poole
Chief Executive
Collections Trust
[log in to unmask]  

Tel: 0207 250 8340

OpenCulture 2011
The Greatest Collections Management Show on Earth!
The Custard Factory, Birmingham, 7th & 8th June 2011 Register online at
www.openculture2011.org.uk



http://www.collectionstrust.org.uk
http://www.collectionslink.org.uk
http://openculture.collectionstrustblogs.org.uk

Follow us on Twitter: @collectiontrust
Follow me on Twitter: @nickpoole1
Contact me on Skype: nickpoole3
Connect via LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=5289899&locale=en_US&trk=tab_pro

Company Registration No: 1300565
Registered Charity No: 27398
Correspondence address: Collections Trust, c/o Cans Mezzanine, 49 - 51 East
Road, Old Street, London N1 6AH Registered Office: Collections Trust c/o CAN
Mezzanine, Downstream Building, No1 London Bridge, London SE1 9BG


-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Mike Ellis
Sent: 11 March 2011 10:50
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The "revenue from free" question

At the (very excellent) Bits 2 Blogs conference yesterday, someone - I
failed to get her name - claimed that picture library revenues for a
certain institution dropped hugely "as a consequence of them putting
their images on Flickr Commons".

This conversation happened in the context of the "what about free /
open?" debate which seems to have been rumbling on for a long time,
presumably because this is A Hard Question To Answer.

On the other hand, the lady in question seemed to be able to state
fairly unequivocally that revenues are downwardly affected by "free",
which sort of implies that research of some kind is being done.

We've had some interesting conversations on-list about this, but never
seem to really move the conversation forward - Nick Poole mentioned some
research that the Collections Trust are doing (Nick, if you're there,
give us the lowdown...!) - but I wondered how we might enable a frank,
open discussion about the culture of "free and open" and how this
affects (either upwards or downwards) our existing sources of revenue? 

Mike 



Mike Ellis
Research & Innovation Group
eduserv
t: 01225 470522
m: 07017 031 522
twitter: @m1ke_ellis
calendar: http://mikeellis.youcanbook.me 

www.eduserv.org.uk 

****************************************************************
       website:  http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
       Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
      Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
 [un]subscribe:  http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
****************************************************************

****************************************************************
       website:  http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
       Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
      Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
 [un]subscribe:  http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
****************************************************************

Visit the new English Heritage website: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk .
The site has a new, dedicated section for heritage professionals:
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional together with information on
days out http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout, heritage news
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/about/news, looking after listed
properties http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/your-property and the latest
information on heritage protection:
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/caring/listing.

****************************************************************
       website:  http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
       Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
      Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
 [un]subscribe:  http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
****************************************************************

****************************************************************
       website:  http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/
       Twitter:  http://www.twitter.com/ukmcg
      Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/museumscomputergroup
 [un]subscribe:  http://museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email-list/
****************************************************************

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager