We've also been having some consultation with EH over this - particularly their (acting for the S of S) duties under the Planning (Listed Building and Conservation Areas) Act. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/9/section/2
This states clearly (s2) that the S o S must 'deposit' a copy of the list entry or amendment 'certified by or on behalf of the S of S to be a true copy' with the relevant local authority (county and district in 2 tier areas). EH have not been doing this, they've just been emailing out copies to various organisations, but now we've drawn their attention to this, they say that they will be retrospectively producing and sending out certified copies. In Somerset County Council these certified copies are retained by the legal department.
The duties of the local authorities are simpler - we only have to 'keep available for public inspection free of charge at reasonable hours and at a convenient place', 'copies' of the list entries deposited with the authority.
Without changing the law, I don't see how thus system of 'deposition' can be ignored.
--
Chris Webster
Somerset Historic Environment Record
Somerset County Council
Somerset Heritage Centre
Brunel Way
Taunton
TA2 6SH
01823 347434
Online HER at www.somerset.gov.uk/her
________________________________
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records on behalf of ELLIOTT, (Andrew) Keith
Sent: Fri 25/03/2011 14:16
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Greenbacks and listed buildings
Dear Helen and everyone else,
(Please excuse this long reply, but hopefully I've addressed all the comments which have come in on this).
I would keep a copy of the greenbacks, the new and amended listings - at the moment I'm also printing them off when the newest ones come in adding them as priority cases for entry to the HER. (The occasional new scheduling would take precedence if both came through at the same time).
For ease I'm keeping the listings up to date paper-wise - though I have a digital folder of the other additional information, such as the maps, advice reports and so on - to save creating an overall scanned new greenback and adding the newest information each time as it comes in.
I agree with Vince that it is also easier in cases where there are non-literate IT members of the public. If I had a member of the public wanting to look at the record for a Listed Building - Helen there has not been anyone specifically wanting to see these - I probably would go to look out the relevant folder of greenbacks and the amendments from doing a search. If non-IT literate someone would also be able to see more easily what is in the immediate area which may need not, of course, be in numerical order in the HER records or be appropriately GIS-tagged as we do in Gloucestershire for these.
However to add to Vince's comment a bit further I treat the paper copy as the main record and follow Gemma's line that the paper record is the one to go with in the case of differences between Listed Buildings Online and greenbacks. At the moment in Gloucestershire in specifically adding/enhancing the coverage of the near 13000 Listed Buildings there are a number of differences between Listed Buildings Online and the greenbacks. In this case the priority ones which I have been in contact with English Heritage are those that are incorrect on the website, such as those delisted from South Gloucestershire and re-listed in Gloucestershire though Listed Buildings Online still has them as delisted in the main body of the text. (In this last case I had a similar reply to the one that Julia has just posted, and had acknowledgement of the information as incorrect).
Perhaps if we could have clarification on how information is being migrated across to the new Heritage List?
Is this coming from the likes of Listed Buildings Online or the archive behind that website? (which my correspondent have noted as the correct in some of the problematic cases).
Sorry this is all rather long (but I hope helpful),
Keith
A Keith Elliott
HER Assistant
Gloucestershire County Council Archaeology Service
Environment Directorate
Gloucestershire County Council
Shire Hall, Westgate Street, Gloucester, GL1 2TH
Tel - 01452 425705
Fax - 01452 425356
Email - [log in to unmask] <http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archaeology>
Web - www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archaeology
HER Enquiries - http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=10032
Go to www.gloucestershire.gov.uk <http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/> to find information on any County Council service. It couldn't be easier to find information instantly and in some cases apply for services online.
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Evans
Sent: 25 March 2011 13:53
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Greenbacks and listed buildings
Could someone buy Vince a printer!
We tried to inform the occupier of a post box of its listing but it came back address unknown!
David Evans
Historic Environment Record Officer
Planning and Environment
Planning, Transportation & Strategic Environment
PO Box 2081
The Council Offices, Castle Street
Thornbury
South Gloucestershire
BS35 9BP
Phone: 01454 863649
fax: 01454 864473
________________________________
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Helen Wells (Archaeology)
Sent: 25 March 2011 13:43
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Greenbacks and listed buildings
Yes, I agree that not everyone can use a computer, but I'm not aware that anyone has ever come in to consult the greenbacks... Sometimes people ask and I print the designation info on the HER out for them (and post it or whatever), but I've never referred to the greenbacks.
Do people get lots of visitors to read their greenbacks?
Helen Wells
Historic Environment Record Officer
Leicestershire County Council
http://www.leics.gov.uk/archaeology
-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Vince Russett
Sent: 25 March 2011 13:37
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Greenbacks and listed buildings
Hi Helen (and everyone)
We have the Listed Buildings data on our HER, too, but we do keep the greenbacks up to date, because there's probably an issue with ICT non-literacy with some members of the public - we all tend to assume that the public can all read things on-line at the drop of a hat, but it ain't necessarily so...
Vince
________________________________
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Helen Wells (Archaeology)
Sent: 25 March 2011 13:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Greenbacks and listed buildings
Hello everyone,
I have a question too, if it's Friday question time!
As a local authority we have a statutory duty to update the greenbacks with new/amended listings. However, since we now have the info on the HER and it's available direct from EH online via LBOnline, are we still expected to look after greenbacks?
As our historic buildings people disappear I suspect more and more of these duties will fall to me. I can print the things I receive out and put them with the greenbacks - is this what we're expected to do? I have no idea. The historic buildings people didn't seem entirely clear either.
Sorry if this is becoming increasingly vague and rambly!
Helen Wells
Historic Environment Record Officer
Leicestershire County Council
http://www.leics.gov.uk/archaeology
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