No. I think you're right Mike. I think we have to rescue beauty from a
concept like
'the correlative of our own capacity to appreciate its design
but maybe its part of the dialectic of beauty?
Ross
.
On 21/03/2011 9:21 AM, Frank, Michael wrote:
> i have to say i'm very troubled by this . . . there are many things whose design i very much appreciate, including some things that i don't find beautiful at all . . . the idea in certain philosophical arguments seems to me a wondrous thing, for example [i still remember the awe with which i first really "got" kant] but i wouldn't want to talk about the grundlegung as being beautiful
>
> of course we could extend the meaning [or use] of the term/concept "beauty" to cover everything that we appreciate and value highly . . . but isn't that at best a metaphoric use of the term, and doesn't it confuse an attempt to sort out what the word might mean
>
> m
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Film-Philosophy [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ross Macleay
> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:48 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [FILM-PHILOSOPHY] FILM-PHILOSOPHY beauty
>
> Strange to say I think narrative van be beautiful - (but its lots of
> other things too, reminding us that beauty is certainly not everything
> in art.)
>
> In Malick's case I think 'Days of Heaven' is a beautiful narrative. We
> often hear that Malick is weak on narrative, all visual beauty and all
> 'objective correlatives', but I say anything but in the case of Days of
> Heaven. It's beautiful in the way of an organism - an Aristotelean idea
> about poetics for a film that is Aristotelian in the structure - a
> perfect tragedy.
>
> Maybe it's because beauty is such an abstract concept that so many
> things can be beautiful. No.
>
> Modern music may have striven to break out of the confines of beauty -
> at least it seems that way - but it nearly always it ends up enlarging
> what beauty is. Beauty is something we find in the work or art or nature
> that is the correlative of our own capacity to appreciate its design?
>
> Ross
>
>
>
>
> On 21/03/2011 8:24 AM, Frank, Michael wrote:
>> this seems spot on about malick . . . but it makes me wonder: can a narrative itself [in and of itself] ever be "beautiful"? . . . or does the concept "beauty" [as we normally use it] apply only to images and sounds but not to meanings? . . . i say meanings rather than words because there are some lines of poetry [and sam johnson's prose] that strike me as beautiful - and my gues is that many of us have similar responses . . . but can a NARRATIVE be beautiful??
>>
>> just wondering
>>
>> m
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Film-Philosophy [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Shaw, Dan
>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 5:11 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [FILM-PHILOSOPHY] FILM-PHILOSOPHY beauty
>>
>> Terence Malick has often been faulted for being too beautiful for his narrative subject matter...whether it be the sublime beauty of the bleak contryside in Badlands or the lush tropical jungle of Thin Red Line.
>>
>> I do find some passages of his films mesmerizing...but at those times the narrative grinds to a halt (or at least loses my attention)...except in Thin Red Line, where the scenery becomes the perfect objective correlative of Witt's profound reflections, which are of the essence of the narrative.
>>
>>
>> Professor Daniel Shaw
>> Chair, Philosophy Department
>> Lock Haven University (570) 484-2052
>> Managing Editor, Film and Philosophy
>>
>> "...woe to the man whose heart has not learned while young
>> to hope, to love---and to put trust in life"
>>
>> Joseph Conrad's Victory
>>
>>
>>
>>
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