Dear Prof. Segal,

You are quite correct that Tylor's definition of religion is more complex than my brief statement suggested; however, my aim was to give an example of how definitions of religion can differ within a single discipline over the course of time, rather than to summarize his views.

If it sounded as if I were saying that Wiccans have no beliefs, then that was misleading. What I meant was that while Wiccans have beliefs, the religion per se does not proscribe any particular belief or faith as a condition of membership.  It is, as I explained, orthopractic rather than orthodox.  It is not in this case just the scholars who are more interested in practice; it is the practitioners themselves who define their religion based on practice.  As to how they justify their practices, they might do so in a host of different ways, depending on the individual.  Some do believe, for example, that magic can change material reality, while others see it as primarily a psychological or psycho-social tool.  Some accept that goddesses and gods have independent existences, while others see them as projections of human qualities and attributes, and others still as personifications of natural forces.  These are just examples -- I don't for one minute wish to suggest that these encompass the diversity of beliefs and attitudes one can find within Wicca.

I accept, and have observed in my own work, that Wiccans (and Pagans more generally) define their identity in contrast to mainstream religions, which in the US means the Abrahamic faiths and Christianity more specifically.  Sarah Pike (2001) has documented how Pagans use narratives of discrimination and oppression from Christians to create solidarity among themselves.  So of course Pagans and Wiccans are exercising choice in the marketplace of religions, and prefer their practices to those of others.  They may even dislike some practices and teachings of other religions -- in some cases, this is what led them to leave their religion of origin and take up a different one.

However, because they have no belief in salvation or in the exceptionalism of their own religion, they do not prosletyze or seek to convert others.  In this sense, it does seem to be that there is a very fundamental difference in the ethos of Wiccan (and Pagan) religions and Christian ones.  I think that's all the originator of this thread meant.

Finally, many Wiccans recount "coming out" narratives that are markedly similar to those of individuals in GLBTQ communities, stressing the essential nature of their religious path and what to them feels like its inborn nature.  Of course, as Anderson notes, all narratives that seek to essentialize identity by making it seem "natural" are in fact founded on the non-essential nature of identity.  Ultimately all identities are fluid, shifting, emergent constructs.

Best,

Sabina Magliocco
Professor
Department of Anthropology
California State University - Northridge
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From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Segal, Professor Robert A. [[log in to unmask]]
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Feb 5

Dear Professor Magliocco,

There is indeed no unanimity on the definition of religion among scholars today, but few deny that, whatever else religion is, it includes both beliefs and practices.   Tylor is more complicated than you report.   For him, primitive religion lacked both metaphysics and ethics, but modern religion has both.   It was Robertson Smith who shifted the focus from beliefs to practices.    And Geertz includes both:   world view and ethos.

I would grant that for some scholars, practices are more important than beliefs, which are sometimes seen as elitist and intellectual.   But a religion without beliefs is simply not a religion.   I doubt that Wiccans simply engage in practices independent of belief.   How else do they justify their practices?   But if they do just practice, they at least consider the payoff superior to that achieved by the kindred practices of of other "religions" and so are not the respectful relativists we have been told that they are.

Finally, I was contrasting the view that, in the obvious case, homosexuality is not simply a choice to the stress on commitment to Wicca as simply a choice.   The contrast holds.


Robert Segal
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Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 10:49 PM
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Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC: How to Cure a Witch....

Dear all,

I second Jenny's suggestion that we examine what various stakeholders mean by the term "religion."  It is almost a cliche' in the study of religion that there is no shared scholarly definition of the term.  Even within a single field, e.g. anthropology, definitions range from Tylor's "belief in spirits" (which certianly does not imply either metaphysics or ethics) to Geertz's much more complex one defining religion as a cultural system imbued with an ideology that makes certain choices seem god-given and "natural."

Another issue which has not beeen touched upon in these posts is that Wicca, like most modern Pagan religions, is not belief-based.  Wiccans share few if any beliefs, and participation in Wicca does not require any particular belief or set of beliefs.  Within a single coven, for example, agnostics, monotheists, duotheists, panentheists and radical polytheists may coexist peacefully.  Instead, Wicca is orthopractic -- it is based on shared practice.

And at the risk of starting another flame war, let me point out that sexual orientation is much more complex than Prof. Segal suggested in his post. Culture plays a very significant role in defining it and in determining the gender of an individual's sexual partner, and it can change over the life course of an individual.  It is generally best to avoid explaining one essentialization by comparing it to another one.

In peace,
Sabina

Sabina Magliocco
Professor
Department of Anthropology
California State University - Northridge
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From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jenny Blain [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 2:04 PM
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Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...

Dear all,
I wonder if we can consider that there are several differing definitions
of 'religion' and of how one might be 'religious'?

As an anthropologist, I see some situations in which religions are in
conflict including mutual mistrust and denial, and others in which there
is a large measure of acknowledgment of others' beliefs and
understanding of parallel practices, including adoption of deities; with
a middle ground in which others' beliefs are tolerated and may be
partially accepted.

Nothing hard and fast here.
Jenny

--
Dr Jenny Blain
Sheffield Hallam University
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07919 556371



Sabina Magliocco
Professor
Department of Anthropology
California State University - Northridge
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