Feb 5

Dear Mogg,

Many thanks for your reply.

Look, I know little about Wicca.   I was appealing to the logic of religious commitment of any kind.

If Wicca is polytheistic, does it recognize ALL other gods?   What if other gods are purportedly exclusivist?   Does it grant them their exclusivity?   Does it grant that monotheism is just another option, even though it itself is polytheistic?

In my reply to Leo, I stated that conversion was not a key or even relevant issue in many religions, so why do you note that Wiccans do not proselytize?

The absorption of other gods goes back to ancient days and is often called syncretism.   There is nothing unique in this kind of ecumenism on the part of Wiccans.

The Hebrew Bible is polytheistic.

My main point remains:   unless Wiccans consider their religion superior to all others, why are they Wiccans and not Christians?

Finally, the analogy to sexual orientation could not be wrong-headed.   Persons are both with their orientation, cannot change it, and need not justify it.   By contrast, Wiccans are not born Wiccan, change reject it, and do need to justify it.

Robert


________________________________________
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of mandrake [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 5:31 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...

Dear Robert

It's a reasonable point -
but many pagans do think they are different to Abrahamic faiths in the
way Leo says.
Yes of course religion can imply a choice -
and _perhaps_ a judgement on other paths.

(Although this is a moot point -
some might say religion is like sexual orientation -
and need not require negation of, for example the heterosexual
or indeed the desire to "convert" )

Even so many Pagans are polytheistic - which I'd say implies
an understanding of other paths and religions.

Many Wiccans will explicitely state that they do not convert,
and go further and say the candidate must ask for initiation.

I'd say that Paganism, unlike Abrahamic faiths is not a counter religion,
not does it claim absolute power for its deities
nor that its view is absolutely correct and others wrong.

Pagans religions of the past practiced "inter-translation" of gods -
ie the gods of another faith were given a corresponding role the native
pantheon.
I think this is quite different to how some Abrahamic faith groups
approach others?

Mogg


> Feb 5
>
> Dear Leo,
>
> (a) My response to you was not ad hominem.   I was not asserting that you claimed what you did because of who you are.   I challenged your claim itself, not you.   It is easy to dismiss criticisms by appealing to the ad hominem fallacy, which is a species of the genetic fallacy.  But sometimes an ad hominem argument is fully appropriate and is not fallacious.   Had I known anything about you, I might have been able to formulate an ad hominem argument that perhaps would not have been fallacious.   But I did not.
>
> (b) It was you who linked proselytizing to respect--as if the absence of a guide to missionary work were sufficient evidence of respect.  But the absence of proselytizing need not mean respect.  Nor would the absence of invective mean respect.   Not all religions even seek converts.   Some, such as Judaism, frown on conversion.   Therefore your criterion of respect is insufficient, if not irrelevant.
>
> (c) The choice of religion is not like the choice of dress.   Religiosity presupposes beliefs--metaphysical and ethical beliefs, among others.   Unless the beliefs of two religions are at least compatible, as they rarely are, then the choice of one religion dictates the rejection of the other.    The rejected belief is rejected as illogical or false or implausible.   I therefore do not see how Wiccans can still be respecting Christians--or Christians respecting Wiccans or Jews and Christians respecting each other.
>
> I will be grateful if you will explain why I am wrong.
>
>
> Robert Segal
> ________________________________________
> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dr Leo Ruickbie [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 2:01 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...
>
> On 05/02/2011 14:09, Segal, Professor Robert A. wrote:
>
> Feb 5
>
> Dear Leo,
>
> I teach religious studies.    I am neither Christian nor Wiccan.   Your statement about Wiccan "respect" for other religions is as naive as is the respect officially shown other religions by official representatives of mainstream religions.   Wiccans would not be Wiccans if they didn't think that their beliefs were right and the beliefs of Christians wrong.   There may be commonly held beliefs, but religious folks are no more relativistic about their convictions--and also their practices--than nationalists are about their nationality.
>
> Please do spare us your silliness.    You sound like the Archbishop of Canterbury, just less pompous.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Robert
>
> Robert Segal
> Sixth Century Chair in Religious Studies
> University of Aberdeen
> ________________________________________
>
>
> Nice unprovoked ad hominem attack, Robert. It was neither silly nor naive to point out that Wicca has not produced any sort of publication about converting people of other faiths.
>
> The tone of your email was not what I would have expected from contributors to this list. Please don't forget your manners in future.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Leo
>
> ________________________________
>
> Dr Leo Ruickbie, PhD, MA, BA (Hons), AKC
> Author:
>
> Witchcraft Out of the Shadows (Robert Hale, 2004; 2nd ed., 2011)
>
> "Witchcraft Out of the Shadows is an engaging book which deserves to be the benchmark for all future analyses of the Craft." - Alan Richardson
>
> Faustus: The Life and Times of a Renaissance Magician (The History Press, 2009)
>
> "Dr Ruickbie has re-evaluated and contextualised the sources of the Faust tradition from a position of authority. The result is a work of meticulous scholarship that can be read as a gripping page-turner." - Professor Osman Durrani
>
> The Paranormal (Constable&  Robinson, forthcoming)
>
> For more information visit www.witchology.com<http://www.witchology.com>
>
>
>
> The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683.
>
>


The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683.