medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
OK - an article with some useful paralels on Vidmus at http://www.vidimus.org/archive/issue_10_2007/issue_10_2007-03.html
Maddy
Dr Madeleine Gray
Reader in History
School of Education/Ysgol Addysg
University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd
Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion,
Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3QT Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
'Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness' (Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms)
________________________________________
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Madeleine Gray [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 22 November 2010 08:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [M-R] FW: Essex reliquary: Long hair and spikenard?
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
See below from Tony Parkinson (with whom I've been working on the St Teilo's Project).
Does anyone know the Ashton-under-Lyne glass?
Maddy
Dr Madeleine Gray
Reader in History
School of Education/Ysgol Addysg
University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd
Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion,
Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3QT Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
'Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness' (Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms)
________________________________________
From: Anthony Parkinson [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 21 November 2010 16:41
To: Madeleine Gray
Subject: Re: Essex reliquary: Long hair and spikenard?
Dear Maddy
I saw the Daily Tel photo and thought 'Ooh!'
On the basis of woodcuts, I suspect Helena rather than Mary Magdalene -
although not often depicted, she seems generally to have either the pot of
ointment, or a palm-branch (though this may be 'generic female saint'). And
the Wikipedia images (mostly very much later than the
reliquary/amulet/locket) show Mary at the foot of the cross - not with an
empty cross. However I take the point about the Sacred Heart/Mary the
penitent.
The only Helena woodcut I can locate shows her with a man holding one of
three crosses - so not conclusive. There is, however, apparently a life of
Helena in glass panels at Ashton under Lyne (Lancs).
The 'kings' names on the sides ought to be relevant - who else was
venerated at Cologne? And is there a fourth name or inscription on the
fourth side?
Life in sunny Hampshire is pretty good - I keep on running across scraps of
early wall-paintings in churches where I turn up to play in a concert!
Yours
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Madeleine Gray" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 12:56 PM
Subject: FW: Essex reliquary: Long hair and spikenard?
>
> I'm sure that little boy has NO IDEA what he has started!
> I think Graham's suggested identification has points in favour. Do you
> have woodcuts of Mary Mag as well as Helena?
>
> Maddy
>
>
> Dr Madeleine Gray
> Reader in History
> School of Education/Ysgol Addysg
> University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd
> Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion,
> Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3QT Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
>
> 'Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness'
> (Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms)
>
> ________________________________________
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Graham Jones
> [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 21 November 2010 11:23
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [M-R] Essex reliquary: Long hair and spikenard?
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Another couple of thoughts, having looked more closely at the figure with
> the Cross, for example at
> http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_news/rayleigh/8668797.Boy__4__strikes_gold_on_his_first_treasure_hunt/?ref=rss
>
> Firstly, is that not long hair falling from the woman's head to below her
> waist? Is this the clincher in favour of Mary Magdelene?
>
> Added to which, can someone have a crack at identifying the plant(s) shown
> to left and right? Could it be spikenard, with the oil from which Mary
> annointed Christ's feet?
> http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/spikenard.aspx
>
> Graham
>
> ****************************************************************
> Dr Graham Jones, St John's College, Oxford OX1 3JP
> Senior Research Associate, Oxford University School of Geography
>
> ________________________________________
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Graham Jones
> [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 21 November 2010 10:51
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day 20. November/Essex reliquary
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Dear All (and Maddy in particular)
>
> Having got into all this saints business through an interest in Helen, I
> hate to line up on the side of those who doubt the figure on the amulet is
> her. Her cult in Colchester was certainly important - she was patron of
> the civic guild, after all. However, Essex is a big county and while
> Colchester is in the north, almost on the Suffolk border, Hockley, where
> the amulet was found, is in the south, almost as near to London as it is
> to Colchester and not far from the Thames estuary.
>
> See the Wiki page on Mary Magdalene for more images of her clasping the
> Cross:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene
> She is the architypal penitent and the Sacred Heart and drops of
> blood/sweat are emblematic of salvation through the Cross and Resurrection
> (MM is a central figure in the Easter story, too).
>
> I wish I could find my large-scale JPG of the Limerick image. I'll keep
> looking.
>
> I think we can be sure of the Magi - the BBC photos show the name
> 'Balthasar' on another of the side faces. The Magi's gifts of gold,
> frankincense and myrrh foretell the story of Redemption through death and
> ressurection.
>
> The amulet appears to speak of suffering and a clinging to hope.
>
> And if the Three Kings are in the picture, given the location of the find
> so close to the Thames Estuary, there is always the possibility that the
> piece originated at Cologne, where the Magi were, of course, greatly
> venerated. Its owner might even have been involved in a shipwreck - in
> which case its presence in Essex might be entirely fortuitous.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Graham
>
> ****************************************************************
> Dr Graham Jones, St John's College, Oxford OX1 3JP
> Senior Research Associate, Oxford University School of Geography
>
> ________________________________________
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Madeleine Gray
> [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 21 November 2010 09:06
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day 20. November/Essex reliquary
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> Good ol' Wikipedia - and it gives the Colchester connection.
> The depiction on the amulet/reliquary looks to me as if it could be based
> on a woodcut. That might be a possible line of enquiry to track down an
> identification.
> Back to the library ...
>
> Maddy
>
>
> Dr Madeleine Gray
> Reader in History
> School of Education/Ysgol Addysg
> University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd
> Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion,
> Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3QT Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
>
> 'Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness'
> (Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms)
> ________________________________
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Marjorie Greene
> [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 21 November 2010 01:51
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day 20. November/Essex reliquary
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> This page:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_of_Constantinople
> shows H. in various venues with a huge cross, especially the shrine in
> Saint Peter's, and with or without crown.
> The Essex find appears rather bizarre to me. All I could see of Magi was a
> name that looked more like "IASPAR" than "Caspar," if indeed that was what
> Jim was referring to.
> But I think the refusal to accept Helena as the person in question solely
> on the "no crown" basis is incorrect.
> MG
>
> Marjorie Greene
> http://medrelart.shutterfly.com/
>
> --- On Sat, 11/20/10, Madeleine Gray <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> From: Madeleine Gray <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day 20. November
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 5:14 PM
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> I've been trying several times to send to the list a link to our BBC
> reporting of a reliquary found in a field in Essex. Apparently the British
> Museum has described it as depicting the Virgin Mary with a cross
> symbolising the Pieta. A colleague emailed suggesting it was more likely
> St Helen and was told very firmly that it couldn't be Helen because the
> figure is not crowned. I'd like to consult the collective wisdom of the
> list - so I'll try to send this again but without the link in case that's
> the problem. Without the link you can find it by going to the BBC site and
> keying in Reliquary as a search term.
>
> Maddy
>
>
> Dr Madeleine Gray
> Reader in History
> School of Education/Ysgol Addysg
> University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd
> Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion,
> Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3QT Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
>
> 'Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness'
> (Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms)
>
>
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