Possibly this is because they aren't sciences at all...
" Biology is science for people who don't like maths. Sociology is
science for people who don't like science" as the adage has it.
Cheers!
Richard
Richard Ellam
L M Interactive
Science Shows and Hands-On Stuff
[log in to unmask]
On 7 Oct 2010, at 10:47, David Waldock wrote:
> I'd kind of be interested to know why social sciences aren't
> included too...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 7 Oct 2010, at 10:41, Richard Ellam
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> HI Judith and all
>>
>> Maybe.. but there's definitely something very odd about the
>> acronym in question containing reference to both engineering and
>> technology as it is surely the case that engineering is a branch
>> of technology. There are lots of things, like agriculture, which
>> are undoubtedly technologies, rather than sciences, but which
>> aren't branches of engineering.
>>
>> So why does engineering get counted twice? is it just that it
>> provides a convenient initial vowel and so converts a clumsy
>> abbreviation into a pronounceable acronym or is there some more
>> profound reason?
>>
>> Also does anyone know which side of the Atlantic 'STEM' was
>> coined? is it a US import, or have we wished it on Uncle Sam?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> Richard.
>>
>>
>> Richard Ellam
>> L M Interactive
>> Science Shows and Hands-On Stuff
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 Oct 2010, at 09:19, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>>
>>> Agree, of course, that blanket terms 'science' and 'the sciences'
>>> are useful, just making a plea for more precicion where poss.
>>>
>>> If STEM is useful to professionals, also, great. Just don't
>>> imagine it means anything useful (anything at all!) to the
>>> general public.
>>>
>>> Interesting you say engineering could be subsumed by technology.
>>> Wouldn't it be the other way round?
>>>
>>> Jb
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Richard Ellam
>>> Sent: 06/10/2010, 18:46
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] STEM education has little to do with
>>> broccoli
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Judith (and all)
>>>
>>> While I understand where you are coming from, and entirely take your
>>> point that journalists are lazy about the use of the word
>>> 'scientist'
>>> I don't think its patronising to want to have a general term to
>>> describe what we do.
>>>
>>> The problem that I face is that in my work, presenting science
>>> shows,
>>> I cover a range of disciplines, including physics, chemistry and
>>> engineering, as well as philosophy and the history of science.
>>> That's
>>> quite a mouthful, and gabbling that lot off every time someone asks
>>> what I do make me sound like a pretentious, pedantic twit.
>>>
>>> So its better to say I do science shows, even if I'd agree with you
>>> that some of the stuff I talk about shouldn't really be called
>>> science. I also work with primary schools - they don't 'do' physics
>>> and chemistry, and ... They 'do' 'science', and they have 'science
>>> coordinators' who lead the teaching of 'science'.
>>>
>>> The reason we need something like 'STEM' to cover the range of
>>> subjects we talk about is that there isn't really any existing
>>> collective term that covers 'the sciences' plus engineering and
>>> other
>>> technologies, and mathematics. By comparison painting and opera and
>>> sculpture and literature and dance not to mention music and
>>> (sometimes) cinema, arguably equally as diverse a group of subjects
>>> as those covered by 'STEM' are quite happy to be subsumed under the
>>> collective banner of 'the arts'.
>>>
>>> Perhaps because scientists (and the rest) are more given to
>>> demanding
>>> accuracy in the use of language all attempts to subsume mathematics
>>> and engineering and technology within a grouping known as 'the
>>> sciences' meet with resistance, so that's why we need a term like
>>> 'STEM'.
>>>
>>> Its interesting to ask why if the 'T' stands for technology, which
>>> surely subsumes engineering within it, the engineers get their own
>>> letter 'E' as well, and so get counted twice. I suspect the
>>> reason is
>>> that if you want make a pronounceable acronym it needs at least one
>>> vowel, and this is most conveniently obtained from the engineers!
>>>
>>> So, yes we do need 'STEM' or something like it, unless you want to
>>> try and persuade engineers and mathematicians that they are really
>>> scientists
>>> (good luck!), and as acronyms go its not too bad, and I think that
>>> its now quite well understood here in the UK, even if the Americans
>>> get confused by it, poor dears.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Ellam
>>> L M Interactive
>>> Science Shows and Hands-On Stuff
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 Oct 2010, at 13:16, Judith Bunting wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hear hear.
>>>>
>>>> Has long stuck me that one problem with 'science' education, is
>>>> that such a variety of interesting stuff is lumped under a single
>>>> word. What's wrong with talking about biology, chemistry, and good
>>>> old physics? Not to mention biochemistry, metallurgy, pure
>>>> mathematics etc etc. If we read about an artist, they're unlikely
>>>> to write plays.
>>>>
>>>> Correct titles for experts are informative, and yet journalists
>>>> often simply term experts 'a scientist', or say that 'scientists
>>>> report'. It's wasteful, lazy and doing the myriad glorious subjects
>>>> we all care about, no favours whatsoever.
>>>>
>>>> Are we so patronising we don't think anyone outside will appreciate
>>>> the difference between different disciplines?
>>>>
>>>> 'STEM' is just another step in the same horrible, reductionist,
>>>> direction.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Judith
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Judith Bunting
>>>> 07914 835 073
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Phillip Kent <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 6 October, 2010 12:49:31
>>>> Subject: [PSCI-COM] STEM education has little to do with broccoli
>>>>
>>>> I enjoyed reading this piece in the New York Times which expressed
>>>> some
>>>> of my own frustrations with the 'whole STEM thing' ....
>>>>
>>>> STEM Education Has Little to Do With Flowers
>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/science/05angier.html
>>>>
>>>> <quote>
>>>> According to survey results released last month by the nonprofit
>>>> group
>>>> Entertainment Industries Council, when some 5,000 participants were
>>>> asked whether they understood the term “STEM education,” 86 percent
>>>> said
>>>> no. “They said it made them think of stem cells, branches,
>>>> leaves and
>>>> broccoli stems,” said Brian Dyak, the group’s president. “I have no
>>>> clue
>>>> on that last one.” Clearly, he added, “we have a branding issue
>>>> here.”
>>>> </quote>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ++++++
>>>> Dr Phillip Kent, London, UK
>>>> mathematics education technology research
>>>> [log in to unmask] mobile: 07950 952034
>>>> www.phillipkent.net
>>>> ++++++
>>>> "Anything can happen in the next half-hour"
>>>>
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