The reason it is so funny is that it is perhaps a little close to the
bone. That's the point.
You don't think we ought to chill and get a sense of humour!?
Hilary
Hilary Sutcliffe
Director
MATTER
7 Adam Street
London WC2H 6AA
Tel: +44 (0)207 520 9086
Mob: 07799 625064
Twitter: http://twitter.com/hilarysutcliffe
Email: [log in to unmask]
Blog: http://www.matterforall.org/blog/
Website www.matterforall.org
Everything you wanted to know about nano, but were afraid to ask - www.nanoandme.org
Take a look at Andrew Maynard's review of Nano&me on http://2020science.org/2009/09/28/so-you
’re-curious-about-nanotechnology…/
On 1 Oct 2010, at 21:26, Bill O'Neill wrote:
isn't the original piece written by someone who has never had to put
together a science story, and with about as much entertainment value
as a tub of banana custard... it's easy to whinge, tough to deliver
============================================
Original Message
You were right to bring this to our attention. It did get a surprising
amount of coverage, probably because of the style.
The thing about the small coterie is that by linking and retweeting
among
itself it can build up the head of steam that you observed.
Then again, far be it for me to point out that the 000s of hits that
send
these folks into ecstasies shrink into insignificance alongside the
000,000s
who read New Scientist every week, let alone the newspaper audience.
The thing about links to journals has been rattling around for quite
some
time. Links should appear when appropriate, although often they will
lead
you to an expensive paywall. (Has anyone ever coughed up £30 to read
one
paper in a journal?) But constantly railing against the BBC for not
scattering them all over the place is a bit tedious after the nth
repetition
of the whinge.
The BBC may have its reasons. I haven't asked. Then again, I am not
running
a campaign.
MK
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carmel Turner
Sent: 01 October 2010 18:22
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist
My point was only that this piece seemed to get a LOTof interest (far
more
than the "small coterie of blogggers" described) from The Outside World
rather than the science comms community (I hate that word, but you
know what
I mean)...and I didn't think it should go unnoticed and un- commented
upon.
Seems a lot of people out there would really (rilly rilly) like to have
links to original papers and that's a good thing and something about
which
we should be aware. That's all - have a good weekend, y'all,
Carmel
Carmel Turner
Media Manager
Royal Society of Medicine
1 Wimpole Street
London W1G 0AE
020 7290 2904
07949 516471
_____
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Oli Usher
Sent: 01 October 2010 16:36
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist
For a critique of the equivalent "template" for writing scientific
papers,
you could do worse than look at this:
http://web.me.com/elandbas/relevant/schrijven_files/Weber.pdf
On 01/10/2010 17:15, Regnier Michael wrote:
It was entertaining enough that I added a suitably This is a comment
comment, but and here I agree with Mico it really doesnt do
anything
constructive. Presumably Martin wants to influence (online) (BBC)
science
journalism and, in some way, improve it. But he ends up attacking what
seem
to me to be some perfectly respectable features of online science
stories.
Why shouldnt a journalist quote a scientists claim about their
research
(scare quotes is a big, fat cliché)? The journalist hasnt done
the
science and the model of news in the rest of the media is as dependent
on
reporting what people are arguing (and counter-arguing). Indeed, if
were in
favour of having journalists at all, it is facile to attack them for not
taking responsibility for establishing the likely truth or accuracy
of the
findings, given thats surely what the scientific community says peer
review takes care of for us. (I mean, does Martin want the journalist to
reproduce the experiment to test the results? Or investigate the peer
review
process prior to a paper being published? If not, what other option is
there
other than to talk to more scientists and include quotes from them in
the
piece to present some context?)
Sub-headings and short paragraphs are, I presume, the result of valid
research showing thats how most online readers get most out of an
article.
Martin clearly disapproves, but as a person with a scientific
background and
a vested interest in science and its reporting, he is not the target
majority of (online) (BBC) readers.
I wont go on, except to say that to have a pop at editors who are
concerned
for the human interest angle is pretty pathetic. Scientists (or the
abstract science itself) probably are not interesting enough for most
readers. This comes down to basic news value, and not providing some
sort of
link between the (non-scientific) reader and the story would limit the
number of people interested in the story to scientists. Scientists have
their own specialist media if they want to ignore human interest and
retreat into ivory towers watching their funding be slashed.
There is an element of recipe or, shall we say, template to
science
writing. Just as there is to writing a scientific paper. It doesnt
(necessarily) mean the content is risible.
Michael Regnier
MRC Science Writer
_____
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Kenward
Sent: 30 September 2010 18:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist
Such was the wave of adulation following the piece on The Guardian
site that
I thought I was alone in finding it more entertaining than informed, or
informative. So I kept quiet. Micos comment smoked me out.
I do not recognise the piece on the Guardian site as reflecting what
I read
in the media. Sure, articles may exhibit one of these crimes against
science, but I would like to see evidence that that approach is truly
representative of science journalism as practised in our media. All it
would
take would be a set of links, or quotes from examples.
Jenny Gristock has already pointed to a somewhat wittier, and sadly more
accurate, piece written some time ago by Charles Petit, who has spent
many
years on the right side of a typewriter. (Yes, some of us are old
enough to
have used these.)
http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200111/zero-gravity.cfm
There is a small coterie of bloggers out there few of whom have
spent even
a day at work on a news desk who slap each other on the back as they
poke
fun at science reporting. It may stem from the fact that bloggers
smart at
being attacked for not being real journalists, whatever that means.
The
bloggers delight in sniping away without having anything useful to
contribute. I should add, though, that Martin Robbins is more
thoughtful and
investigative than some of these people, who seem to think that the
Twitter
is the bees knees rather than the stream of drivel that most of it is.
If someone were to look closely at these Twitterers, and their blogs,
they
might find writing that is far more formulaic and narrow, and often
grammatically sloppy beyond belief, than anything in the mainstream
media.
_______________________________
Michael Kenward OBE
Have words will travel
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mico Tatalovic
Sent: 30 September 2010 16:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist
This is vaguely entertaining but what is it actually saying, apart
from the
fact that Martin holds a grudge against the BBC?
It states the obvious really: this is broadly the way online science
news
articles are published, and it works well given all the constraints. In
fact, some of us would love to get articles written to this formula
it
would make our job much easier (exempting of course sillines such as
using
Wikipedia as a source - but why not Google to find relevant reports and
supporting information?).
I seem to remember that Martin gave a talk at the UK science journalism
conference along similar lines, saying that any press released paper
will
result in dozens of news articles which are almost exactly the same.
In his
opinion, this is a waste of resources. (Again he, for some reason,
singled
out the BBC, which I believe is doing a great job providing news not
just to
the UK but to the world. It was the top science news source for
scientists I
had worked with while studying in Cambridge). Martin neglects the fact
that
many of these articles are written from a particular perspective for a
specific audience and so in fact differ quite a bit. Also, not
everyone will
read any odd science news article people want to know how any given
item
is relevant to them, and this is where different outlets become
important.
What would be nice is if Martin followed this up with a website
science news
article that would be exemplary - how to do it, then.
_____
Mico Tatalovic, BA (Oxon), MPhil (Cantab), MSc & DIC (Imperial)
_____
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:16:08 +0100
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [PSCI-COM] This is a comment about The Lay Scientist
To: [log in to unmask]
Very surprised there's been no discussion of this
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/sep/24/1?showallcom
ments=true#comment-fold
Have heard lots of discussion (and enthusiastic support for) this witty
piece from 'non-science communications' peeps I know. And there was
another
piece in the Guardian yesterday discussing the massive (and I use that
word
in a purely non-scientific way) response. Whether people agree with it
or
not, I just thought it odd that it hadn't been discussed here.
Anyway, have a good day.
Carmel Turner
Media Manager
Royal Society of Medicine
1 Wimpole Street
London W1G 0AE
020 7290 2904
07949 516471
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