On 26/10/2010 13:26, C Oppenheim wrote:
>   "Fair use" is a legal concept that applies to USA only.  The  equivalent, in the UK, fair dealing, is much more limited.  I made it clear that I thought reproducing recipes without permission was infringement, but that I thought the risks of being sued were low.
>
> I presume the final statement, "By the way, was it a colleague of yours who sent me an invitation through Linkedin y'day coincidentally few moments after I have sent out an email about misconduct of lawyers? For your information, it has been recorded in my daily log of coincidences :)" was aimed at me personally. All I can say is that  no one I know would do such a thing.
>
> Charles
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Library and Information Professionals [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brunella Longo [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 26 October 2010 12:39
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Copyright and Recipes
>
> Dear Charles
>
> fair use does not have to be in the Law to be recognised as a fundamental
> principle that enable human collaboration to achieve results, especially when
> there is high uncertainty about future technologies and solutions.
>
> In other terms, what you have identified here as "small risks" about copying and
> re-using recipes without quoting the authors, the sources, the databases you
> have used etc etc  can lead people to an escalation of misbehaviours (including
> poisoning!) just because of the easiness of the process of making up stories in
> the absence of punishments for what we all would consider a  misconduct if we
> were the victim of the abuse.
>
> Fair use cannot be easily incorporated in the law because it depends on human
> behaviours, and not on technicalities. It is also true that the normative
> bibliographic traditions we have been instructed to respect has matured in the
> context of the printed world and it appears clearly  obsolete for the digital
> times.
>
> In fact, these days you may have written such an original contribution that
> there is no need to add any further bibliography to your work because you have
> also explicitly described the way in which you have achieved  these findings
> (including citations of people, projects, institutions, web sites, shops or
>   ingredients that are in the public domain or easily identifiable via common
> search and reference tools). Many blog pages and wikis do not have a formal
> bibliography but nevertheless they could and should be cited (and the same is
> true for this email message!) formally or informally. The last solution is what
> I have decided to do for a printed book published ten years ago, La nuova
> editoria, quoting projects of mine, companies,  technologies under development
> and few primary and secondary sources of research within the main text of the
> essay (it was related to e-publishing, web publishing, e-books, printing on
> demand cases).
>
> Conversely, sometimes you are "telling a story" about your recipes, workflows,
> methodologies and visions of the future with such a clear  promotional intent
>   that it is extremely important to formally quote the sources you have used in
> order to make people more aware of the potential conflicts of interests, bias,
> subjective and arguable views that should  be verified (and may be
> contradicted) thanks to the bibliography added to your work. This is what I have
> done for  instance in an article of mine, Nine lives to live in a knowledge
> based economy, the only article among many others I wrote in which I was
> deliberately self-promoting myself to an international audience. Ten years
> later, quoting the same excellent sources of that article, I must say that  I
> would probably write another story (especially with regard to the idealised
> assumption that librarians and information professional have convenience to
> "always lending on their feet").
>
> So, all in all, speaking about your sources, citation services, bibliographic
> traditions etc etc I would avoid to say that just because is not covered by any
> law (at the moment) what you are doing in breach of fair use principle  (and the
> moral rights of authors)  is "small risk". Whatever you practically do in order
> to quote your sources and no matter the bibliographic style you choose (or the
> technology you add to the publishing process), fair use principle is what enable
> knowledge and scientific reasoning to achieve results.
>
> By the way, was it a colleague of yours who sent me an invitation through
> Linkedin y'day coincidentally few moments after I have sent out an email about
> misconduct of lawyers? For your information, it has been recorded in my daily
> log of coincidences :)
>
> Cheerfully
>
> Brunella Longo  Brunella Longo
> 7 New College Court
> London NW3 5EX
> T +44 (0)20 72095014 (home) -  +44 (0) 75 49921488 (mobile)
> http://www.brunellalongo.info
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: C Oppenheim<[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Tue, 26 October, 2010 8:43:22
>> Subject: Re: Copyright and Recipes
>>
>> Unfortunaterly, the advice you have been given is somewhat misleading. There is
>> no such thing as "fair use" in UK law - that's US law and it is incorrect to
>> apply it to a UK situation.  In contrast to fair use, fair dealing in the  UK
>> can only apply for a few permitted purposes (non-commercial research or  private
>> study, reporting current events, criticism or review), and none of those
>> purposes appear to apply to the sugested application to a book club.
>>
>> Each  individual recipe is a copyright work in its own right. There is also
>> database  rights in a collection of recipes, and even taking one recipe from a
>> colection  might be considerated to be substantial extraction and reuse.  So
>> database  rights might also be infringed.
>>
>> Nonethess, because of the modest amount  of copying and small number of people
>> receiving the copies,  the rights  owners might not become aware of the copying,
>> or even if they do, are not  sufficiently bothered by it to complain.
>>
>> To conclude:  what is  proposed is almost certainly infringement, but the risk
>> is  small.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From:  Library and Information Professionals [[log in to unmask]]
>> On Behalf Of Sarah Bruch (Hywel Dda Health Board - ) [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 22  October 2010 09:27
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject:  Copyright and Recipes
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> This is my Friday question. We have  a bookclub in the library that has its own
>> blog (see my signature). We also have  cakes and treats at the bookclub as well
>> as books. The club and i were wondering  about the copyright issues around
>> putting a recipe from a book onto our blog (we  would reference it correctly of
>> course). I can't find anything much to say that  recipes are even under
>> copyright. If anyone knows of any reason why we can't put  one or two recipes
> >from individual books that we've used with correct  referencing please could you
>> let me  know.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>> Enw/Name: Sarah Bruch BSc (Hons),  MScDip
>> Teitl/ Title:Rheolwr Gwasanaethau Gwybodaeth Ysbyty Tywysog  Philip/Prince
>> Philip Hospital Knowledge Services  Manager
>>
>> Llyfyrgell/Library
>> Ysbyty Tywysog Philip/Prince Philip  Hospital
>> Dafen
>> Llanelli
>> Sir Gaerfyrddin/Carmarthenshire
>> SA14  8QF
>>
>> Ffon/Tel: 01554 783467
>> Facs/Fax: 01554 749301
>>
>> Did you know  there is a book club in the Library at PPH on the last Thursday
>> of every  month?  See our blog at
>> http://princephiliphospitallibrarybookc.blogspot.com/
>> and get in touch  with Library staff if you would like to join.
>>
>> Gwasanaeth Chwilio ar gyfer  Llenyddiaeth
>> Os nad ydych yn gallu dod o hyd i'r gwybodaeth yr ydych yn  chwilio am, beth am
>> ddefnyddio'r Llyfyrgell? Rydum yn gallu chwilio am uhrhyw  llenyddiaeth ar gyfer
>> gweithwyr Bwrdd Iechyd Hywel Dda am ddim. Danfonwch e-bost  a gofynwch am
>> ymchwiliad llenyddiaeth.
>>
>> Literature Search Service
>> If  you can't find the information you're looking for why not try the Library?
>> We  can perform searches for Hywel Dda Health Board staff free of charge! Simply
>> email us and ask for a literature search.
>>
>> Search the Library catalogue:  click here http://health-library.cf.ac.uk/
>>
>
In doing similar things myself, I have sometimes simply rung the 
publisher and asked if I may copy.
They have often been so amazed that I bothered that they say "Yes"!

Then you don't need legal opinion at all!

Malcolm Jones