On 2 July 2010 21:53, Khem Caigan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Jake Stratton-Kent doth schreibble :
> <SNIPS>
>>
>> the dead - the primary concern of ancient goetia - were seen as organised
>> hierarchically and possessing particular characteristics.
>> They are distinct from the 'evil spirits' of the GoS and other grimoires,
>> in that while often unruly they were not seen as collectively malevolent.
>> The lowest forms generally were, but others were either evolving or
>> capable
>> of evolution, in this way closer to Ancestors and other dead in New world
>> and other traditions.
>
> This tallies with those accounts of the after-life
> [ "Summerland", &tc. ] produced by Andrew Jackson
> Davis and Paschal Beverly Randolph, for example. Their
> eschatological framework is still very much alive in
> Spiritualist communities such as Lily Dale, NY and
> Cassadaga, Fla.
>
> And it is also employed by the Pre-Gardnerian "witches"
> that I mentioned earlier, who still hold seances in a
> circle and commune with friends / ancestors that have
> "passed on".
these are interesting manifestations, though a long way from the
mainstream of contemporary magic. That is not a criticism, since the
latter is heavily commercialised & stereotyped, and of course death
isn't terribly fashionable. .
> <SNIPS>
>>
>> Agrippa on the other hand refers to virtually the entire grimoire genre as
>> goetic...
>
> Here Agrippa is, like Ficino before him, making note of the
> fact that the practices in question are considered illicit
> by the Church, while confirming their efficacy.
>
> And I would suggest that the Church's opinion on such matters
> is just about as useful for practitioners ( then as now ) as
> their take on ( for example ) the work of Kepler is to
> astronomers or to astrologers - that is, not at all.
>
> But the disclaimer presumably served to keep the wolf from
> their doors.
there is *some* truth in that, though the devaluation of the term
goetia is millenia older than Agrippa, and he was echoing two main
strands
a) classical precedent in which theurgia was good and goetia bad (a
distinction St.Augustine knew, and rejected).
b) more recent authorities like Mirandola, who made a similar
distinction, again based on classical precedent. These precedents were
themselves questionable: 'learn Greek and turn heretic'.
ALWays
Jake
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