JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for RADSTATS Archives


RADSTATS Archives

RADSTATS Archives


RADSTATS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

RADSTATS Home

RADSTATS Home

RADSTATS  June 2010

RADSTATS June 2010

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: How to lie with statistics [was: The state of the nation]

From:

"Allan Reese (Cefas)" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Allan Reese (Cefas)

Date:

Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:50:37 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (320 lines)

An American named Zinsser described writing thus: "the difference
between the right and the wrong word is like the difference between
lightning and a lightning bug."  I've struggled to find a UK equivalent
of lightning bug, which makes his point.

When teaching graphics, I struggle to get students to (a) see what is
there rather than what they expected or thought was there (b) experiment
with a variety of graphs and see that each delivers a different message,
and (c) hence choose the graph that conveys a message they intend and to
justify their design choices.

It starts with software marketed under the slogan "use our software and
*with a few clicks* you'll create professional quality graphs."  Can you
imagine "use our word processor and with no effort you'll write
bestselling novels"?

Having mentioned data density, Significance (June 2010 p69) has
wonderful examples of two bar charts occupying 12 column inches (>1/3 of
the page).  Each chart has just two bars that happen to total to 100%,
so each is effectively displaying just one number.  The authors may have
wanted to draw attention to the four factor levels that contributed zero
to the sum but that's not explicit in the graph or the text - so relies
on readers seeing what's *not there* and inferring.  I would have
expected my graphics students to suggest stacked bars (using the Y scale
to 100) and merging Figures 1 & 2 (& 3?) to put the bars side by side to
ease comparison of the child/family/secondary components.  Use
colour/pattern/tone matching to visually link the components not to
spuriously distinguish the three figures.  I'm not saying they should,
just indicating a trail of design thought.  BTW, do you find the
"credible intervals" credible as statements of the potential
variability?

No offence taken, but I replied off-list to Julian and had not intended
to indulge myself during work hours.

Allan
  

-----Original Message-----
From: Wells, Julian [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: 17 June 2010 10:02
To: Allan Reese (Cefas); [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: How to lie with statistics [was: The state of the nation]

I certainly would deny their right to choose to describe a one per cent
increase in something as "rocketing", or a 100 per cent increase as
"slight".

Whether I would want to *prevent* such abuses, given the opportunity, is
another question: if I was refereeing a submission to a scholarly
journal I'd certainly have something pointed to say in my report, at the
very least.

Julian

________________________________________
From: Allan Reese (Cefas) [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 17 June 2010 09:34
To: Wells, Julian
Subject: RE: How to lie with statistics [was: The state of the nation]

You might disagree with their choice but I hope you would not question
(ie deny) the author's right to choose.

Or am I just out of touch with modern education?  I do recall stories of
exam papers being downgraded because
examiners were too stupid to recognise synonyms of model answers. ;-)

Regards
Allan

-----Original Message-----
From: email list for Radical Statistics [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Wells, Julian
Sent: 17 June 2010 07:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: How to lie with statistics [was: The state of the nation]

Allen writes:

'You would not question the right of authors to choose words in the
text, eg between "has crept up", "has increased", "has rocketed".'

Well, I would -- if the numerical increase was, say, 1 per cent rather
than 100 per cent (or v.v.).

That facts only have meaning in the light of context and interpretation
does not give one the right to describe them in any old way one likes
...


Julian


Dr Julian Wells
Acting Director of Studies
School of Economics

staff web-page: http://fass.kingston.ac.uk/staff/cv.php?staffnum=287
personal web-site: http://staffnet.kingston.ac.uk/~ku32530

Senior lecturer in economics
School of Economics
Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
Kingston University
Penrhyn Road
Kingston-upon-Thames
KT1 2EE
United Kingdom

+44 (0)20 8417 2285
________________________________________
From: email list for Radical Statistics [[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of [log in to unmask] [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 16 June 2010 23:37
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [RADSTATS] How to lie with statistics [was: The state of
the nation

Scaling pictures linearly with data is a classic error.  It raises the
question of whether specific software was used, in which case blame the
software writer, or the figures were given to a graphic artist who was
just innumerate.  I think there are psychology studies (but don't have
refs to hand) showing that viewers compare areas in this situation but
not exactly. Square root scaling would therefore be better than linear.
Had they used pictograms (silhouette of wheelchair), readers would be
psychologically comparing volumes and a cube root transformation would
be advisable. Making the pies vary in colour and tone exaggerates the
difference, particularly between 1997 and 2003.



Note that three discs are used to represent three data items, so the
data density (cf Tufte) is very low.  This is not necessarily bad; you
might deliberately include such a graph to lighten a text-heavy page.
Bars would more naturally match the values, and the spacing between bars
could scale with the number of years.

The question for the authors is what message they intended the graphic
to convey.  If it is "alarming growth", they may be justified in adding
"stress" rather than "distortion" - the assumption that these figures
are "correct" and must therefore be represented with precision is in
actuality an assumption.  You would not question the right of authors to
choose words in the text, eg between "has crept up", "has increased",
"has rocketed".  My worry with graphics is always that the authors (and
proof-reading editors - cf the Radstats comment that two parts of
thereport are inconsistent) are not sensitive to the implicit messages
in graphs.  Too many graphs in publications look like exam scripts - you
guess what they're getting at and give credit for effort!



Allan

-----Original Message-----
From: email list for Radical Statistics [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Ted Harding
Sent: 16 June 2010 10:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: How to lie with statistics [was: The state of the

On 16-Jun-10 08:02:04, Wells, Julian wrote:
> Yikes! The Cabinet Office people might profitably be directed to the
> ONS house style guide or its predecessor "Plain Figures", not mention
> that old faithful "How to Lie with Statistics" (I see from Wikipedia
> that the  latter has been claimed to have sold more copies than any
> other text on statistics).
>
> Julian

I was so struck, looking at the graphic, by the apparent disparity
between the perceived "sizes" of the circles and the associated
numbers that I even wondered if the sizes had been deliberately
fudged! So I did a check. Enlarging the picture and using a ruler,
I got, for the diameters of the circles:

1.2m:  42mm
1.5m:  53mm
1.8m:  64mm

Now:

1.5/1.2 = 1.25 ; 53/42 = 1.26
1.8/1.2 = 1.50 ; 64/42 = 1.52
1.8/1.5 = 1.20 ; 64/53 = 1.21

So pretty close agreement between diameter and value (given that
the edges of the circles were a bit fuzzy anyway).

Which just goes to show (essentially Julian's point) that the eye
is more influenced by relative areas than by relative linear
dimensions. Indeed, attempting to estimate "by eye" the relative
diameters (before using the ruler) I had judged that successive
circles were more like 1.5 times as wide as their predecessors.
And that is in keeping with ratios of areas (1.2^2 = 1.44). A nice
"optical illusion".

Well, now, the Cabinet Office statisticians should of course be
encouraged to make the areas in the right ratios, rather than
the diameters, in order to induce appropriate perceptions.

And then they would have to make diameters (presumably the defining
quantity for producing the graphic) proportional to the square roots
(which might require a coffee break). And then they would have to
explain that somehow. Or not -- the report makes no attempt to explain
the scaling of the circles.

So maybe they wouldn't explain. Then some journalist could do what
I've just done and then report "The Cabinet Office report includes
graphics that deliberately play down the massive increase in
claimants from 1997 to 2009. The increase from 1.2m to 1.8m is
an increase of 50 per cent. The circles increase in size by just
[journalist's synonym for 'only'] 22 per cent."

But what journalist is going to pick up on the apparent exaggeration
that is present in the graphic as presented? Maybe Tim Harford?

So perhaps the C.O. should explain! A simple parenthesis in the
caption (to the better form of the graphic) would do it:

  "Figure 3.1: The numbers of working-age Disability Living
   Allowance claimants have increased by over 40% since 1997,
   from 1.2 million to 1.8 million (areas of circles proportional
   to numbers)."

Or is that too abstruse?

But since they've stated the numbers so clearly, why bother with
the graphics?

Well, you sort of can't help it once you've woken up a spreadsheet!
In the memorable words of one of Jasper Carrott's best:
"Q: Why do dogs lick their ****s?  A: Because they can."

I think we have a very long way to go before the public understanding
of statistical information is informed by presentations which induce
correct perceptions.

Ted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <[log in to unmask]>
Fax-to-email: +44 (0)870 094 0861
Date: 16-Jun-10                                       Time: 10:39:23
------------------------------ XFMail ------------------------------

******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender
and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by
subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past
issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************


************************************************************************
***********
This email and any attachments are intended for the named recipient
only.  Its unauthorised use, distribution, disclosure, storage or
copying is not permitted.  If you have received it in error, please
destroy all copies and notify the sender.  In messages of a non-business
nature, the views and opinions expressed are the author's own and do not
necessarily reflect those of the organisation from which it is sent.
All emails may be subject to monitoring.
************************************************************************
***********


This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security System.
****************************************************** Please note that
if you press the 'Reply' button your message will go only to the sender
of this message. If you want to reply to the whole list, use your
mailer's 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to
[log in to unmask] Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are
the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of
the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group.
To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities
and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to
visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************

This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security System.

******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender
and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by
subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about
Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past
issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site
www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************

This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security System.

This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security System.

******************************************************
Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your
message will go only to the sender of this message.
If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's
'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically
to [log in to unmask]
Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk.
*******************************************************

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager