JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC Archives

POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC  April 2010

POETRYETC April 2010

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Bruce Andrews interview at The Argotist Online

From:

Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc: poetry and poetics

Date:

Mon, 5 Apr 2010 12:31:42 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (85 lines)

So I finally went & read the interview too, Alison, thanks.   
Interesting, that he seems to be asking political questions, & raising  
his practice as one answer, all the way to:

BA: Which is an encounter with their socialized self. It’s not about  
your personal history. And that’s often the identification process.  
Author writes about her personal history, reader sees her personal  
history reflected in their personal history and is enraptured, and  
blah blah blah. So no, it’s about the social context, the social  
landscape. When I think of explanation, which I’m heavily invested in  
as a concept and a term, I think about context, contextualizing,  
rather than narrative. I want people not to find themselves in a  
story. I want people to find themselves in a meaningful network of  
possibility, of meaning, of value.

and that's really the first place he does that gender thing that  
bothered you (& me). But just before that he also suggests that other  
forms of something like 'lyric,' but he also includes 'performance  
poetry,' cannot do what he seeks to do (although that term  
'capacitate' sure doesnt actively excite me).
But aside form your pointing to someone like Carson, I can alo think  
of many, & varied, poets, such as Susan Howe, Rae Armantrout, Erin  
Mouré, heck, Sheila Murphy, & many ohers, who do not do that trad  
lyric (feminine?) thing.

I am reading right now a book by a woman who has 3 kids & is divorced,  
& her books fits his critique, lyrics deeply personal about her life  
as it played out, & so it does not interest me as much as books by the  
people I named above, but just before going through it (these are  
books from a publisher with which I am associated, but I did not  
choose any of the; here's a fairly large & eclectic editorial board) I  
was reading one by a man which had the same problems; so it's not  
attached to gender. It may be attached to that lyric desire & how it  
is still idealized by many writing programs, etc.

Meanwhile, TL Cowan, in her PhD thesis on performance poetry (which I  
may have mentioned before) made a strong theoretical argument for the  
political power of some of the feminist/queer performances she  
critiqued.

It's both a complex & a conflicted territory (& then it's all just  
poetry anyway, which few people read, really....

Doug
On 3-Apr-10, at 5:05 PM, Alison Croggon wrote:

> I got lost where this discussion was happening, so am sending this to
> both lists.
>
> I read the interview, which is actually quite interesting, and it
> prompted some musing. I'm kind of fascinated that one of his models is
> Brecht - whom you would think would be at an opposite axis in
> practice, if not in theory - and another is the ostranie of the
> Russian formalists. And that he places the reader in the centre of his
> practice, with the desire to change the reader's consciousness, to
> make the reader more aware of the social structure which frame him/her
> (something that's been occupying me, although in very different ways),
> and an embrace of an oppositional poetics that means chucking out the
> old to make space for the new, &c (which he also eschews in another
> breath, when he claims that LANGUAGE poetry wasn't oppositional). Yes,
> all stuff that's been heard before, but interesting all the same,
> because of the doubt that seems to be behind some of his answers, and
> which in fact emanates from where he places of the reader. Unless, of
> course, I'm misreading him.

Douglas Barbour
[log in to unmask]

http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/

Latest books:
Continuations (with Sheila E Murphy)
http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=664
Wednesdays'
http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-from-aboveground-press_10.html

                                     The secret

which got lost neither hides
nor reveals itself, it shows forth

tokens.

		Charles Olson

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager