Jake
Thanks for that -
surprises me about glastonbury as i thought there were some good
booksellers there -
but I suspect things will change as many more UK are waking up to the
richness of their heritage and
there is a new wave of writers and commentators who are helping that along -
(the Inner Bookshop here in Oxford has definitely improved the kind of
stock holding you like)
BTW re witchcraft/wicca - I just finished editing Shani Oates' book
"Tubelo's Green Fire" which is a
study of the "Clan of Tubal Cain" - of which she is the current "maid" -
I learnt a lot about a slightly different type of witchcraft which does
indeed acknowledge strong links with
its pagan/hermetic past -
I think you also have to say that Alexandrian (sic) wicca also has a more
overtly "occult" ie "pagan" thread running through it.
Jez - i understand where you are coming from with the
silliness/crassness of some media pagans -
I just think if you keep saying the right thing the message will get
there in the end
and the door will close on the carpet baggers . . . ??
bb/93
Mogg
Jake Stratton-Kent wrote:
> On 22 March 2010 07:40, mandrake <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Dear All
>>
>> Personally I'm happy to identify myself as a pagan - a new religion created
>> in the
>> classical world from Greek, Babylonian and Egyptian sources -
>>
>> as such I think Hinduism is something else, perhaps even as a religion, its
>> origins are different and a little older
>> circa 6th century bce?
>>
>> You're right that some UK pagans have problems with the term -
>> partly I think because of the Xtain coinage and the idea that its _maybe_
>> pejorative
>> (Some supposed expert commentators have probably confused the community on
>> that . . . ).
>> Personally I think that some pagans are just being bloody minded when they
>> refuse to get on board and take advantage of a name with a long, noble
>> history . . . it makes it awkward when it comes to committees and censuses
>> etc.
>> We use it here in our dealings with local Council of Faiths -
>> (although there have been grumblings about the term "faith" -)
>> where pagans are definitely a local religious minority but not by any means
>> the smallest
>> (some pagans also object to term "religion").
>>
>>
>
>
> that definition of pagan I can get behind, (post-modern classicism
> again) tho' the Hellenistic synthesis didn't spring into being from
> nothing. When it comes to origins the Minoans alone go back to 6000
> BC, and plenty of later Hellenes were disillusioned with state cults
> and consciously reviving/reforming the old traditions (as were the
> earlier Orphics etc.). There's also plenty of Indian influences on the
> old 'Western' trad, and vice versa. So if pagan=polytheist with
> Western spin, India is in there as far as I can see. More care is
> needed with th ATRs, as Congo was converted to Christianity before the
> slave trade and the adoption of Saints as camouflage in Voodoo etc.
> Nevertheless, we've more chance of empathising with the ATRs by
> comparison with Classical paganism than with Cabala-ha-ha or Wicca.
> Indeed, we've more chance of understanding and revivifying many
> elements of Western magic that way (plus a hefty dose of Astrology).
>
> On a personal note incidentally I do describe myself as pagan on
> censuses and medical forms etc., I just don't much identify with the
> neos and the reverse is also true (try finding a decent academic book
> on Greco-Roman magic in Glastonbury!) The pejorative sense is unlikely
> to worry me, I've been called worse things and relished them.
> Naturally I am also 'religious', and can't imagine goetia without
> religious elements.
>
> ALWays
>
> Jake
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> bb/93
>>
>> Mogg
>>
>>
>>> On 21 March 2010 21:52, Matthew Citrullo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> LOL - reminds me of the occasion someone asked what the largest pagan
>>>>> grouping in the UK was, folks were umming and ahing over neo-Celtic,
>>>>> Wotanist et al, until someone perceptively pointed out it was the
>>>>> Hindus.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Someone asked the Hindus what they think about that?
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>> or Voodoo devotees come to that, pagan isn't a universally embraced
>>> term. Semantics are knotty, medieval Moslems considered Christians
>>> polytheists - not to mention some Protestant views of Catholicism...
>>>
>>> Come to that, neo-pagan isn't exactly how I'd describe myself.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
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