Dear Ivan,

     It is great to have confirmation that you got answers to your initial
question that enabled you to solve your problem. The idea of the BB is that,
in exchange for the gift of other people's contribution to solving your
problem, you are expected to share the solution with the other subscribers.
If you look through the archives, you will see numerous cases when people
who received contributions, either as replies to the BB or in messages sent
to them off-board, then took the trouble to collect them into a message to
the BB as a whole, so that everyone learned something. It would be really
good if you could do the same with the answers you got.

     I think I will bow out of this "thread" by retracting any churlish
content in my previous posting. I felt it was not quite satisfactory that a
question asked in terms of CCP4 programs should only leave a Phenix-based
solution as a written trace - but avoiding this takes some work from the
beneficiaries of the answers and not just a modicum of tact from the
repliers in answering the questions that are actually being asked.

     Of course, any broadening of subject matter beyond the initial specific
question asked is a wonderful thing to see happen in any scientific forum;
but this was not at all the case in this particular instance.


     With best wishes,
     
          Gerard.


--
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 08:13:26AM -0800, xaravich ivan wrote:
> ok I think I should say something here.For some reason I was unable to find
> REPLY-ALL button and my reply did not go to everyone first so I had to write
> another message.I got the answer to my original query and I used CCP4 (CAD)
> and coot as suggested by Jan.
> Having said that I did not know that you could do it in so many ways. and
> that is perhaps the most valuable thing!!!
> Thanks all of you for your replies and I think the best thing of this forum
> is to be able to get answers when you do not have anyone in the lab to guide
> you. People like us need you guys the most. Irrespective of whether it is
> ccp4bb or phenix or any other program, the goal is to share the knowledge
> and help the less experienced (less fortunate) with your vast expertise, so
> that people can enjoy doing exciting crystallography related research.
> 
> Thanks to everyone,
> 
> Ivan
> 
> On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 7:37 AM, Edward A. Berry <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> > The guidelines for the CCP4BB are extremely broad and certainly include
> > discussion of other software packages. Since the original poster's question
> > had to do with a specific problem with CCP4, it would have been appropriate
> > for Pavel to prefix his reply with something like "I hope you receive an
> > answer to your question shortly, but in the meantime here is an
> > alternative".
> > But this is a nicety I would be glad to forgo for the sake of getting the
> > extra information. The problem is not that the phenix team was so quick
> > to promote their software, but rather that now 14 hours after the original
> > post, no one has answered the CCP4 question. It is too easy to say "yes,
> > I think I could help this guy, but half the readers of this BB could
> > probably give a better answer".  Maybe someone at CCP4 should be assigned
> > to answer all reasonable queries that go unanswered for more than 8 hours.
> > The phenomenal rise in popularity of the phenix package is probably due as
> > much to the incredible responsiveness of the phenix team, not only in
> > support
> > but in adding requested features, as it is to the power and ease of use of
> > the programs.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Vellieux Frederic wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Dirk,
> >>
> >> When it happens that I reply to a ccp4bb message and that the answer, or
> >> solution I may have (which I think is "better" or "more appropriate")
> >> involves using non-ccp4 programs, I do it off-list. By replying
> >> privately to the person who asked the question.
> >>
> >> Fred.
> >>
> >> Dirk Kostrewa wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Gerard,
> >>>
> >>> I can only agree with you - I've also noticed a growing and sometimes
> >>> irritating cross-advertisement of non-CCP4 programs on the CCP4BB over
> >>> the last months (mainly Phenix). Unless, the specific task that was
> >>> asked for, can only be (reasonably) solved with non-CCP4 programs,
> >>> such replies leave a somewhat bad aftertaste.
> >>> Personally, I think, it would be perfectly acceptable if both
> >>> solutions with CCP4 programs and other programs would be given, so
> >>> that the user may choose, or try them all.
> >>>
> >>> Best wishes,
> >>>
> >>> Dirk.
> >>>