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HERFORUM  February 2010

HERFORUM February 2010


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Re: Listed and Locally Listed Buildings


Chris Webster <[log in to unmask]>


Issues related to Historic Environment Records <[log in to unmask]>


Fri, 5 Feb 2010 11:10:49 -0000





text/plain (200 lines)

Pete Insole's solution is very pragmatic - but will there be problems when the HER becomes statutory? What is actually "in" the HER using the method of just proliferating "layers"?

Chris Webster

Somerset Historic Environment Record

Taunton Castle



01823 255080

Visit the online HER at www.somerset.gov.uk/her

-----Original Message-----

From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records

[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Chris Wardle

Sent: 05 February 2010 11:06

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: Listed and Locally Listed Buildings

Peter, I don't think that it is essential to add them to the HER as monuments. but I for one have chosen to do so.

>>> Peter Insole <[log in to unmask]> 05/02/2010 10:56 >>>

Can I ask why you need to add these features to the HER as monuments?

We don't have a local list, but as characterisation and Conservation Area Appraisal studies are carried out we are creating an Unlisted Building of Merit layer which will hopefully become a local list when resources are available.

Surely any polygons from appraisals, listed structures, HLC projects etc just sit in separate layers. We do add monuments (including Listed structures) to the HER dataset when there has been a site specific event that has recorded the building in some form. I know this goes back to recognition events (so frowned upon recently), but it works nicely for us. Of course you could argue that the character appraisal is the recognition event, but we ignore this.

And in case you're wondering how I know whether we have data in a specific layer relevant to a trawl request or site appraisal, we have an HER Spatial Catalogue that is the first point of any research.

We don't use HBSMR, but we find that the relationship classes and distributed geodatabase tools in ArcGIS do the job.

I'm more interested in how people are defining locally listed structures and eagerly await the EH guidance on this subject. Because I work directly with Conservation Officers we have had discussions about this issue mainly because as I was creating unlisted buildings of merit for one Conservation Area based on an officer's draft appraisal I noticed that almost every structure (rows and rows of late nineteenth century terraced housing) had been defined as unlisted buildings of merit. In a sense this is true, but we decided that to ensure that we didn't have the longest local list in the country we would define these elements as character buildings (Buildings that have value within the overall townscape context and contribute to the character of the area) and that unlisted buildings of merit would be defined as key buildings that contribute to the special interest of the area and may have specific architectural qualities, or local historic and cultural associations.

Not sure this helps, but I believe it is always useful to share individual approaches.


Peter Insole

Archaeological Officer

Urban Design & Conservation

City Development

Brunel House

St George's Road



tel 0117 9223033

fax 0117 9223101

>>> "Winfield, Hugh" <[log in to unmask]> 05/02/2010 09:29 >>>

Thanks for the comments, but I'm still stuck really.


If I decide to create monuments records for all of the new Local Lists,

it means creating hundreds of new monument entries (whether recorded as

Mon or Building montypes) for no real gain as the vast majority are

houses built between 1880 and 1920. This also means that buildings with

almost identical features, but which are pebbledashed for example, would

not end up on the record; there is no good reason from an HER point of

view to exclude these but to try and include them would mean carrying

out a fairly large survey project.


However, if I decided to record the buildings/houses in blocks covering

several listings, then I would essentially be duplicating the work

carried out by the HLC and any future EUS we have carried out.


I'm sorely tempted at this stage to not have Monument records for

buildings identified by conservation area assessments and the local list

as it's just giving me a huge headache trying to get my head around how

to include them, and how to justify excluding "ugly" buildings which

aren't picked up by the surveys. Industrial buildings picked up by the

surveys are a little easier to filter as there are other surveys which

have already picked up many of the remaining buildings which have a

historic interest to the area.



Hugh Winfield


Development Management

Regeneration Department

North East Lincolnshire Council

Origin Two, Origin Way

Europarc, Grimsby

North East Lincolnshire

DN37 9TZ

Tel: (01472) 32 3586 Fax: (01472) 32 4216 



From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records

[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Boldrini

Sent: 05 February 2010 08:33

To: Winfield, Hugh

Subject: Re: Listed and Locally Listed Buildings

Hi Mike


I think this may be on the cards. I recall hearing something via ALGAO

about HER's being invited to come up with projects for enhancement

relating to HPR, and one theme of that was specifically to do with

buildings IIRC


best wishes

Nick Boldrini

Historic Environment Record Officer

Direct Dial (01609) 532331



>>> Mike Shaw [log in to unmask]> 04/02/2010 16:11 >>

<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 04/02/2010 16:11 >>> 

Wouldn't it be nice if EH used some of its money for HER enhancement

arising out of HPR for improving historic buildings data on HERs.





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