Hi all
In response to the "duplication" comment, though at the risk of
preaching to the converted, I'll just clarify the reason for recording
"designations" as well as monuments in an HER...
A designation record is metadata about a legal entity (or quasi-legal
entity for various non-statutory designations) that affords some kind of
protective status.
Designations have a many-to-many relationship with monuments; for
example one "scheduled monument" designation record may cover many
monuments from different periods; equally, one monument record may be
protected by several "listed building" records (e.g. a Georgian terrace
may be on the HER as one monument, but lots of separate listings). A
"conservation area" designation will certainly cover many monument
records.
The monument record evolves through time with collected data and
understanding; the designation record is generally static except through
defined processed (such as de-listing).
The monument record and the designation record (even where there is
superficially a one-to-one relationship) may have different boundaries.
i.e. this is not duplication, it is correct data modeling !
And yes, this means that you can manage designation records without
necessarily recording them as monuments, if you feel they do not fall
within your HER's recording guidelines for monuments. As an example, we
have some conservation teams using the HBSMR for things like Tree
Preservation Orders and sites of geological interest - not monuments!
All the best
Crispin
-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Winfield, Hugh
Sent: 04 February 2010 15:46
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Listed and Locally Listed Buildings
Some informative responses, thanks to all for commenting. Just to
re-assure people, I consider the Designations module as part of the HER;
the only thing I am worried about is the monuments GIS file getting even
more cluttered, especially in central Grimsby, when there seems little
point adding the site onto the monuments module when it is already
entered into the designations module.
I do however keep records of demolished listed buildings, demolished
locally listed buildings, standing de-listed buildings, and
non-designated buildings of interest in the monuments module. Also,
when we appoint our new conservation officer, I will try and get them to
use HBSMR to keep the buildings sections of the HER more up-to-date than
I would be able to on my own.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hugh Winfield
Archaeologist
Development Management
Regeneration Department
North East Lincolnshire Council
Origin Two, Origin Way
Europarc, Grimsby
North East Lincolnshire
DN37 9TZ
Tel: (01472) 32 3586 Fax: (01472) 32 4216
-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Wardle
Sent: 04 February 2010 15:24
To: Winfield, Hugh
Subject: Re: Listed and Locally Listed Buildings
Like Mike, we've put all listed buildings on the HER, both as Monuments
and as Designations. I don't believe this will overstretch HBSMR, but
then we have a fairly small HER. Moreover, as we are reassessing our
local listing (our existing list consists only of those buildings that
various Conservation Officers thought 'nice looking') we are putting
local listings and potential local listings on. We hope to devise a set
of criteria, such as being the work of prominent local architects or the
premises of important or innovative local industrialists, for inclusion
on a revised set of local listings.
Chris
Chris Wardle
City Archaeologist
Planning Policy & Design
Leicester City Council
Block A
New Walk Centre
Welford Place
Leicester. LE1 6ZR
0116 2527282
[log in to unmask]
>>> Mike Shaw <[log in to unmask]> 04/02/2010 14:39 >>>
We put all locally listed buildings on - as far as we are concerned they
all have an historic interest - which may or may not have been brought
out in the Conservation Area Appraisal. At a time when we are trying to
widen the scope of HERs and strengthen bonds with our Conservation
colleagues it would be unhelpful to try and make a distinction within
locally listed buildings. In fact if a Conservation Area Appraisal
mentioned a building as of interest I would hope to be able to put it on
to the HER even if it wasn't given a designation - though admittedly
current resources do not always permit. Even better of course would be
some automated way of putting data from a survey such as a Conservation
Area Appraisal into the HER.
Mike
Mike Shaw
Black Country Archaeologist
________________________________
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Winfield, Hugh
Sent: 04 February 2010 13:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Listed and Locally Listed Buildings
Hi All,
I was hoping to get an impression of how people integrate Listed and
Locally Listed buildings into their HERs. I currently have them both in
the designations module of HBSMR; however the listed buildings and the
original 1973 local list also have monuments records, even if no further
information is available other then the listing entry. My main problem
with recording like this is that the new conservation area appraisals
being carried out here have added several hundred locally listed
buildings, most of which are 19th and 20th century Villas and Terraces
with no real historic interest attached to them.
I don't want to clog up the monuments module by duplicating the new
local lists into it, but if I don't add them it calls into question
whether I should keep all of the old lists and national listed building
on.
My current thinking is to keep records where the building has a historic
aspect (Docks custom house, WW1 aircraft hangar etc), but not to have
monument records for buildings which have just been listed for their
architectural interest (houses, a few offices and shops). I can't
justify using a date based cut-off system as unfortunately most of our
historically interesting buildings are 19th and 20th century.
Anyway, if anyone else who has thought about this could email me with
any solutions they came up with, I would be grateful.
Thanks,
Hugh
Hugh Winfield
Archaeologist
Development Management
Regeneration Department
North East Lincolnshire Council
Origin Two, Origin Way
Europarc, Grimsby
North East Lincolnshire
DN37 9TZ
Tel: (01472) 32 3586 Fax: (01472) 32 4216
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