On 5 February 2010 14:19, Nicholas Campion <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I think we need to avoid generalizations about Greeks, Roman, Persians, Jews
> and Egyptians as if they inhabited entirely separate universes, and as if
> one particular form of practice or text can be characterised as belonging
> exclusively to one culture rather than another.
>
> Nick
Hi Nick,
agreed, contact between all these cultures were long standing - Egypt
and Greece for instance from Mycenaean times.
The syncretic approach evolved during the Hellenistic era gives some
value to modern 'cross-cultural' systems of correspondences ala 777.
In my estimation at least, these are noticeably strongest when
cultures that were part of the melting pot are involved. In other
words the supposed 'universality' of symbolism is really underpinned
by syncretism of a particular period.
Western magic owes a good deal to the syntheses evolved in the
Hellenistic era and later Roman Imperial phase. Regarding this period,
perhaps Alexandria ('Egyptian') somewhat unjustly overshadows Syrian
Antioch, which also made very major contributions; as well as
representing important older contacts between Greece and the Middle
East.
Perhaps where Greece really scores as a predecessor of Western magic
is not so much in originating this method or that, but that magic and
mysticism - homegrown and imported - was largely centred on private
associations and individuals, rather than royal cult as in Assyria and
Egypt.
ALWays
Jake
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jake Stratton-Kent
> Sent: 05 February 2010 12:49
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] On Nature Mysticism
>
> On 4 February 2010 08:44, mandrake <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Dear Friends
>>
>> As a magician & amateur Egyptologist I don't find it surprising that
>> Egyptian magic is
>> so influential on the western mystery tradition.
>> I suppose I'd also say its figures muchly in GD* because it is so
> effective.
>> Not surprisingly Egypt was famous in the classical world as the "most
>> advanced" of magical cultures
>> and internal evidence backs this up.
>
> really this is more a case of an exotic culture receiving projections
> - the Greeks and Romans 'projected' magical virtues onto Persian and
> Jewish culture in the same way, but the elements of magical practice
> were not necessarily even foreign.
>
>> There is hardly any technique in magick of the modern period that doesnt
>> have a precedent in Egypt eg: wax image spell, encircling,
>> cardinality, importance of colours especially red,
>
> I've not seen a definitive case of a magic circle in Egyptian lore;
> as there is in Akkadian tablets etc.. OTOH circular processions, with
> holy water sprinkling etc. were a long established part of Greek
> sacrificial ritual.
>
>> The earliest "graded course of magick" / the Corpus Hermetica - is
> essential
>> a summary of the Egyptian magical religion of its time -
>
> Arguable, there is a lot of Astrology (Greco-Babylonian) and other
> lore in there too. Much more like a synthesis than an indigenous
> system.
>
>> and has an Egyptian context - for example Hermetic texts found at Nag
>> Hammadi (in Egypt)
>
>> and the earliest grimoires have an Egyptian connection (See Testament of
>> Solomon)
>
> which has more marked Greek and Semitic elements.
>
>> and often continue to make reference to their source eg Goetia says the
>> spirits speak in the Egyptian tongue,
>
> as a compilation grimoire of 1640 this doesn't establish anything
> other than Egyptian origins were part of the mythos of later magic.
>
>> Abramelin has Egyptian authorship etc
>
> but is essentially Jewish.
>
>> The origins of Kabbalah are in Alexandria, an Egyptian city, KBL also
>> incorporates many Egyptian religious concepts.
>
> Arguable again, Kabbalah - which is medieval - involves many
> Neoplatonist concepts.
>
>> Some of this is obscured by the fact that Egypt was colonised by Greece
> and
>> later Rome.
>
> or, the reputation of Egypt as a magical culture actually exploded at
> that time because of the cosmopolitan synthesis made possible by a
> Greek library etc.
>
> The magical papyri of the time show highly syncretic tendencies,
> Jewish, Greek, Egyptian and Babylonian (probably in that order). Most
> common god name in the texts is IAO (Grecized Jehovah), followed by
> Helios. There are some impressively archaic Egyptian elements too, but
> on the other hand bowl divination - a very major technique in the
> Demotic and Greek - has been argued to be of 'Persian' origin.
>
>> It is also the historical "contrary" of Israel which perhaps contributes
> to
>> its > erasure from intellectual history, the famous closure of its temples
> and
>> suppression of its ancient language -
>
> exactly the same could be said of the Greco-Roman elements of magical
> tradition, since Kabbalah entered Western Magic in 1495 its importance
> has been progressively exaggerated. It has also been artificially
> back-dated, thus obscuring or even erasing important older strata
> (Neoplatonism, Orphism and Greco-Roman syncretism). This should be a
> matter of concern for 'academic occultists'.
>
> Since the C19th many 'traditional occultists' have developed myopia
> and see only Cabala in Agrippa, when it is stacked with Neoplatonist
> and Orphic elements. The real Agrippa - a Christian Neoplatonist
> seeking to inject a bit of Cabala into the system - has been replaced
> by an imaginary Agrippa the Cabalist.
>
> ALWays
>
> Jake
>
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